kevin.ahn7
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Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by kevin.ahn7 Wed Aug 11, 2010 7:14 am

I chose B and.. I kinda understand why E is the answer but I am having hard time why the rest answers are wrong. I guess I don't understand the reasoning here well. Anybody can help?
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by ManhattanPrepLSAT1 Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:59 pm

Really tough question! And of course, it comes down to the slightest shift in language.

Let's start by identifying the conclusion of the argument and it's supporting evidence.

Conclusion
There is no genuinely altruistic behavior.

Evidence
Behavior that appears to be altruistic can be understood as being ... a clearly self-interested motivation.

We're asked to identify a flaw committed in the argument. This argument provides evidence about behavior that appears to be altruistic and then offers a conclusion about behavior that actually is altruistic. This argument assumes that behavior that appears to be altruistic actually is altruistic. This flaw is best expressed in answer choice (E).

(A) is the exact opposite of what this argument is trying to do. The argument is trying to say that because this behavior can be understood as being self-interested, then it is not altruistic.
(B) is not true. The argument concludes that behavior is not altruistic, not that it is altruistic!
(C) is not true. The argument doesn't fall to consider this, but rather explicitly states it.
(D) is the negation of a statement made in the stimulus. The argument does not presume this claim, nor does it presume it's negation, but rather explicitly states that "having a sufficient amount of self-esteem, ... depends on believing oneself to be useful and needed.

Does that help clear up some of the confusion on this question? It's tough, but if you can isolate the core of the argument, it makes it much easier to spot the flaw!
 
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Re: PT 32 S1 #19 - Altruistic Behavior

by willaminic Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:03 am

Ok, here is how i thought about this problem, the key word is "genuinely" in the conclusion. It says there is no such altruistic behavior. In other words, everything is faked. And the evidence is that behavior that appears to be altruistic is a product of self-interested motivation.

So A is wrong because it is not a genuinely behavior. B C D is very easy to see why it is wrong.

E is right, because the author makes assumption that behavior appears to be altruistic is in fact not altruistic, it is a circular argument.

Can anyone explain if my reasoning is right ? Thank You. This one is tough!
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Re: PT 32 S1 #19 - Altruistic Behavior

by ManhattanPrepLSAT1 Sun Jun 12, 2011 2:17 pm

willaminic Wrote:So A is wrong because it is not a genuinely behavior. B C D is very easy to see why it is wrong.


I think you have this right. When you say that it is not a "genuinely behavior" I think what you mean is that we don't know whether the behavior is genuinely altruistic. All we can determine from the evidence is that the behavior "appears" to be altruistic.

willaminic Wrote:E is right, because the author makes assumption that behavior appears to be altruistic is in fact not altruistic, it is a circular argument.


This is not a circular argument. For it to be circular the conclusion would need to be a restatement of the evidence and there is a difference between saying that a behavior appears to have a certain quality and the behavior in fact having that quality. Also I think you meant to say that "the author makes assumption that behavior appears to be altruistic is in fact [sic] altruistic."

Is that true?
 
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Re: PT 32 S1 #19 - Altruistic Behavior

by willaminic Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:22 pm

mshermn Wrote:
willaminic Wrote:So A is wrong because it is not a genuinely behavior. B C D is very easy to see why it is wrong.


I think you have this right. When you say that it is not a "genuinely behavior" I think what you mean is that we don't know whether the behavior is genuinely altruistic. All we can determine from the evidence is that the behavior "appears" to be altruistic.

willaminic Wrote:E is right, because the author makes assumption that behavior appears to be altruistic is in fact not altruistic, it is a circular argument.


This is not a circular argument. For it to be circular the conclusion would need to be a restatement of the evidence and there is a difference between saying that a behavior appears to have a certain quality and the behavior in fact having that quality. Also I think you meant to say that "the author makes assumption that behavior appears to be altruistic is in fact [sic] altruistic."


Yea, i mean it is altruistic but just not a genuinely altruistic behavior. so basically the author is saying what appears to be altruistic is actually altruistic just not a genuinely one.
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Re: PT 32 S1 #19 - Altruistic Behavior

by ManhattanPrepLSAT1 Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:22 pm

Yep, looks like you got it. There's simply a difference between the way things appear and the way things might actually be. The LSAT has changed my view of the word "apparent." For example, on Explain a Result questions, we are often asked to "resolve the apparent paradox." That means that there isn't a paradox, even though it appears initially that there is one.

Nice work!
 
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Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic behavior. Everyone ne

by martintp Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:43 pm

Can someone explain why the answer is E and not D?
 
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic behavior. Everyone ne

by giladedelman Sat Jul 30, 2011 3:18 pm

Thanks for posting.

So, the argument concludes that there is no such thing as altruistic behavior. The reason is that apparently altruistic behavior can be understood as being motivated by the self-interested desire to reinforce belief in one's usefulness.

Well, the flaw here is pretty sneaky. Just because altruistic behavior can be understood as being self-interested, does that mean it really is? Well, no! That's just one interpretation. So the problem here is that the premise is about one possible way of understanding a certain behavior, but the conclusion holds that understanding to be definitive.

That's why (E) is correct. Just because it can be seen as self-interested doesn't mean it really is.

(A) is incorrect because it's completely the opposite of what the argument holds.

(B) is also the direct opposite of the argument.

(C) is irrelevant; the argument never says that a sense of usefulness is the only thing one's self-esteem depends on, just that it is one such thing.

(D) is out because, for starters, the connection between self-esteem and feeling useful/needed is just the premise; there's no logical step between them. Also, this answer reverses the relationship. The argument tells us that feeling useful/needed is necessary for one's self-esteem, not that self-esteem is necessary to being useful/needed.

Does that clear this one up for you?
 
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by nicolauria Thu Nov 14, 2013 2:19 pm

Thanks for all the posts!

Here's how I broke it down:

If we look at the last line of the last sentence

"that belief, a clearly self-interested motivation"

the belief being referred to is the entire second sentence

"Everyone needs to have a sufficient amount of self-esteem, which crucially depends on believing oneself to be useful and and needed."

And that belief, according to the author is self-interested.

However, the argument gives no evidence for us to conclude that the second sentence is indeed self-interested. So (E) makes the most sense - just because the second sentence could be interpreted one way does not mean the interpretation correct.

As usual, my explanations don't turn out the way I pictured them. Either way, hope that helps someone!
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by WaltGrace1983 Thu Jun 19, 2014 12:34 pm

Just so I am clear, the motive of an action wouldn't necessarily mean a correct categorization of an action. I noticed that this argument relies a lot on the motivation of an action. Now I suppose that a "genuinely altruistic" action has good motives so maybe this discussion isn't as applicable to this particular question as it is to other LSAT questions that will undoubtedly arise. However, isn't there still something going on with concluding that one can accurately decipher what kind of action something is only from the motivation of that action?
 
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by christine.defenbaugh Mon Jun 23, 2014 3:24 pm

WaltGrace1983 Wrote:Just so I am clear, the motive of an action wouldn't necessarily mean a correct categorization of an action. I noticed that this argument relies a lot on the motivation of an action. Now I suppose that a "genuinely altruistic" action has good motives so maybe this discussion isn't as applicable to this particular question as it is to other LSAT questions that will undoubtedly arise. However, isn't there still something going on with concluding that one can accurately decipher what kind of action something is only from the motivation of that action?


Interesting question, WaltGrace1983.

The distinction you raise between motivation and categorization could be an interesting one on another LSAT question somewhere out there, but it doesn't actually apply here.

As you note, a "genuinely altruistic" action has good motives, by definition. In fact, let's get a little more specific: altruistic behavior isn't just 'good motives'. The specific definition of the concept requires that the motivation be unselfish. So, this 'categorization' depends entirely on the motivation for the action in question. Once we decide that behavior X has a definite selfish motive, that behavior is by definition not altruistic.

I have no idea if a leap between motivation and action 'category' would ever be in play on another LSAT question. It's entirely possible, but it would depend a great deal on the particulars of the question.

What do you think?
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by Mab6q Mon Dec 15, 2014 7:00 pm

I feel the explanations above for B aren't adequate. Can we get more discussion on why it's incorrect. Besides the flaw in E, I thought the argument also assumes that behavior was altruistic because it appeared to be so. Isn't that a flaw? That seems to be what the last sentence is doing. I understand that the argument is about what is not altruistic, but that premise IS about what is altruistic.
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by WaltGrace1983 Wed Dec 24, 2014 3:10 pm

Mab6q Wrote:I feel the explanations above for B aren't adequate. Can we get more discussion on why it's incorrect. Besides the flaw in E, I thought the argument also assumes that behavior was altruistic because it appeared to be so. Isn't that a flaw? That seems to be what the last sentence is doing. I understand that the argument is about what is not altruistic, but that premise IS about what is altruistic.


I'll see if I can do a good breakdown here. To start, self-interested is the exact opposite of altruism.

    Behavior appearing to be altruistic can be understood as reinforcing belief in one's usefulness
    +
    This is a clearly self-interested motivation
    -->
    There is no genuinely altruistic behavior


There are two big flaws I see, the first one I had noticed and the second one I just now noticed.

    (1) Who's to say that action "understood as" selfish is indeed selfish? Maybe our understandings of an action are skewed.

    (2) This is a very BIG conclusion (there is NO altruistic behavior, EVER) but is based on very limited evidence. It just talks about behavior that "appears to be" altruistic. What about behavior that doesn't appear altruistic? Could that be actually altruistic?


(A) This is actually the opposite of what is happening. The author does not presuppose that anyone acting out of self-interest is actually being ALTRUISTIC. Instead, the author is saying that anyone acting out of apparent self-interest is NOT being altruistic. Eliminate.

(B) This is very similar to (A) but slightly different. It can also be broken down conditionally: (Seems altruistic) --> (Is altruistic). We have satisfied the sufficient condition by the stimulus ("Behavior that appears to be altruistic..."). However, the author is actually saying ~(Is altruistic). In fact, the author says there is NO genuinely altruistic behavior. Eliminate.

(C) We aren't really concerned with this. We are more concerned with altruism and what constitutes it. However, even if we did consider this, so what? The author just gives one necessary condition for self-esteem. So what if there are others? Eliminate.

(D) Not useful to us. Eliminate.

(E) Just about perfect. This can be broken down conditionally too: Interpreted Self-Interested --> In Fact Self-Interested (aka, ~altruistic). We satisfy the sufficient condition with the premises and we satisfy the necessary condition with the conclusion. This is a very cookie-cutter, straightforward answer.

How does that look?
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by rinagoldfield Tue Dec 30, 2014 3:52 pm

Walt, great breakdown. I love that you pointed out this flaw:

WaltGrace1983 Wrote:



    (2) This is a very BIG conclusion (there is NO altruistic behavior, EVER) but is based on very limited evidence. It just talks about behavior that "appears to be" altruistic. What about behavior that doesn't appear altruistic? Could that be actually altruistic?




We could bridge this gap by saying something like "everything that is altruistic appears altruistic," or "If altruistic --> appears altruistic"

This would indicate that there are no great altruistic acts that fly under the radar, unaffected by the author's whole "motivated by self-interest" stuff.

(B) gives us the opposite of the conditional we need to resolve the above flaw -- (B) says "appears altruistic --> is altruistic." As a result, (B) does not bridge any gaps.
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by Mab6q Thu Jan 01, 2015 11:00 pm

rinagoldfield Wrote:Walt, great breakdown. I love that you pointed out this flaw:

WaltGrace1983 Wrote:



    (2) This is a very BIG conclusion (there is NO altruistic behavior, EVER) but is based on very limited evidence. It just talks about behavior that "appears to be" altruistic. What about behavior that doesn't appear altruistic? Could that be actually altruistic?




We could bridge this gap by saying something like "everything that is altruistic appears altruistic," or "If altruistic --> appears altruistic"

This would indicate that there are no great altruistic acts that fly under the radar, unaffected by the author's whole "motivated by self-interest" stuff.

(B) gives us the opposite of the conditional we need to resolve the above flaw -- (B) says "appears altruistic --> is altruistic." As a result, (B) does not bridge any gaps.



Thanks Walt and Rina for the great explanations.
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Re: Q19 - There is no genuinely altruistic

by roflcoptersoisoi Mon Jul 25, 2016 3:49 pm

P: Everyone needs suffiicient self-esteem which is dependent one believing that one is needed and useful.
P: Behaviour can be understood to as being motivated by the belief that one is needed and useful which is a self interested motivation.

C: There is no such thing as altruistic behaviour.

Flaw: Takes for granted that if a behaviour can be understood as self interested that it cannot be altruistic.

(A) The author does not presuppose this. The author presupposses that if a behaviour can be understood as self interested, then it is.
(B) Descriptively inaccurate, the author does not errenously infer that this is the case. The author in fact doesn't think that any behaviour is altruistic.
(C) Descriptively inaccurate, the author explicitly states this is the case and thus doesn't fail to consider it.
(D) Descriptively inaccurate, the author does not presume this. This is just the negation of one of the premises, not a flaw of the argument.
(E) Bingo.