Hi,
Got another question in which I have a serious problem.
Question:
Before the Civil War, Harriet Tubman, along with other former slaves and white abolitionists, helped create what had become known as the Underground Railroad, and were responsible for leading hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves to freedom.
(a) had become known as the Underground Railroad, and were
(b) would become known as the Underground Railroad, and were
(c) had become known as the Underground Railroad, and was
(d) has been becoming known as the Underground Railroad, and was
(e) would become known as the Underground Railroad, and was
Doubt:
I was stuck between (c) and (e). I eliminated (e) because OG Verbal Page 266 Q29 Option C clearly says that the use of conditional would is incorrect to state a fact. I get the point that C is incorrect but so is E. To be correct, E should be reframed as "... helped create what later became known as..."
Please clarify.
GMAT Forum
11 postsPage 1 of 1
- poojakrishnamurthy1
- Hanumayamma
Before the Civil War, Harriet Tubman, along with
I believe E is correct.
A and B are out - Subject Agreement issues
C: In Past perfect clauses it’s important to distinguish the action timeline - that is which action occurred first in time. C - implies "known" happened first and create later - logically it's other way round.
D: no require to change the tense
A and B are out - Subject Agreement issues
C: In Past perfect clauses it’s important to distinguish the action timeline - that is which action occurred first in time. C - implies "known" happened first and create later - logically it's other way round.
D: no require to change the tense
- poojakrishnamurthy1
Re: Before the Civil War, Harriet Tubman, along with
Hanumayamma Wrote:I believe E is correct.
A and B are out - Subject Agreement issues
C: In Past perfect clauses it’s important to distinguish the action timeline - that is which action occurred first in time. C - implies "known" happened first and create later - logically it's other way round.
D: no require to change the tense
Hi Hanumayamma,
Please consult OG Verbal Page 266 Q29 Option C where it is clearly mentioned that would cannot be used to state a fact. E is incorrect.
- Tipu
(A) (C) are eliminated because it came to be known as "Underground Railroad" in the future and the 'had' conflicts with that time period.
(D) the sentence structure is awkward.
Between (B) and (E), i'll choose (B) because of the usage of 'were' which tells that Harriet and other slaves led them to freedom - 'was' would emphasis the Railroad. If it had been 'which was' instead of 'and was' i would have chose (E). The usage of 'and' here needs two verbs which are 'create' and 'responsible' referring to Harriet and the slaves.
The usage of 'would' may not be correct, but the best option of the lot is (B)
(D) the sentence structure is awkward.
Between (B) and (E), i'll choose (B) because of the usage of 'were' which tells that Harriet and other slaves led them to freedom - 'was' would emphasis the Railroad. If it had been 'which was' instead of 'and was' i would have chose (E). The usage of 'and' here needs two verbs which are 'create' and 'responsible' referring to Harriet and the slaves.
The usage of 'would' may not be correct, but the best option of the lot is (B)
- Hanumayamma
Before the Civil War, Harriet Tubman, along with
Hi Pooja,
It’s well known fact that the OG-11 is the best source and the most we learn from the OG-11 helps us to narrow down in answering the question. But in this question Would/will are virtually interchangeable.
For example: In this question, the timeline was set to before the Civil war, and author of the question is intending to specify the action of Tubma was lead to the creation of Underground Railroad.
Please note: In certain contexts, will and would are virtually interchangeable
Please refer this for more info on would: http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/auxiliary.htm#would
Coming back to question, the tie is between B and E:
B has agreement issue. Let check it: "and was/were responsible for leading hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves to freedom."
The verb in the second thought: was/were
Subject: Who or What "was/were" responsible for leading hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves to freedom. - "Harriet Tubman" . Since the subject is singular so verb required to be Singular "was".
I hope this helps!
Thanks
It’s well known fact that the OG-11 is the best source and the most we learn from the OG-11 helps us to narrow down in answering the question. But in this question Would/will are virtually interchangeable.
For example: In this question, the timeline was set to before the Civil war, and author of the question is intending to specify the action of Tubma was lead to the creation of Underground Railroad.
Please note: In certain contexts, will and would are virtually interchangeable
Please refer this for more info on would: http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/auxiliary.htm#would
Coming back to question, the tie is between B and E:
B has agreement issue. Let check it: "and was/were responsible for leading hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves to freedom."
The verb in the second thought: was/were
Subject: Who or What "was/were" responsible for leading hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves to freedom. - "Harriet Tubman" . Since the subject is singular so verb required to be Singular "was".
I hope this helps!
Thanks
- poojakrishnamurthy1
I stick to my logic!
Hi Hanumayamma,
I agree with you when you say that in "some" contexts will and would are virtually interchangable. I'm not disputing that fact. All I'm saying that no matter what the context, would CANNOT be used to state a fact. In fact the link you quoted http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/auxiliary.htm#would doesn't even mention one example where would is used to state a fact. The site says -
1. Would can also be used to express willingness:
* Would you please take off your hat?
2. It can also express insistence (rather rare, and with a strong stress on the word "would"):
* Now you've ruined everything. You would act that way.
and characteristic activity:
* customary: After work, he would walk to his home in West Hartford.
* typical (casual): She would cause the whole family to be late, every time.
In a main clause, would can express a hypothetical meaning:
* My cocker spaniel would weigh a ton if I let her eat what she wants.
Finally, would can express a sense of probability:
* I hear a whistle. That would be the five o'clock train.
Coming back to the sentence -
Before the Civil War, Harriet Tubman, along with other former slaves and white abolitionists, helped create what had become known as the Underground Railroad, and were responsible for leading hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves to freedom.
Since, Harriet Tubman helped create something, it means that whatever she did has already happened and its a fact. The usage of would is definitely inappropriate here. The only thing that is being said is that "seeing from the past time" , the creation of the Underground Railroad happened in the future and so would would have to be used to express this scenario. However, an alternate construction should be used. Words such as later and before convey the meaning of what happened before or later something else happened.
The ideal construction for this questions should be "... helped create what later became known as the Underground....". A construction such as "... what would become known is.." is directly contradictory to OG Verbal and therefore would be incorrect on the GMAT. On the GMAT day, if this construction comes, I would definitely mark it as incorrect!
Moreover, a lot of SC concepts that Manhattan GMAT CAT has applied are in direct contradiction with OG 11 and OG Verbal. You may see my other posts. I just hope that Manhattan GMAT seriously looks into them or else students run the risk of learning incorrect concepts and faring badly in their GMAT.
Hope the Manhattan Verbal faculty is listening!!
I agree with you when you say that in "some" contexts will and would are virtually interchangable. I'm not disputing that fact. All I'm saying that no matter what the context, would CANNOT be used to state a fact. In fact the link you quoted http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/auxiliary.htm#would doesn't even mention one example where would is used to state a fact. The site says -
1. Would can also be used to express willingness:
* Would you please take off your hat?
2. It can also express insistence (rather rare, and with a strong stress on the word "would"):
* Now you've ruined everything. You would act that way.
and characteristic activity:
* customary: After work, he would walk to his home in West Hartford.
* typical (casual): She would cause the whole family to be late, every time.
In a main clause, would can express a hypothetical meaning:
* My cocker spaniel would weigh a ton if I let her eat what she wants.
Finally, would can express a sense of probability:
* I hear a whistle. That would be the five o'clock train.
Coming back to the sentence -
Before the Civil War, Harriet Tubman, along with other former slaves and white abolitionists, helped create what had become known as the Underground Railroad, and were responsible for leading hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves to freedom.
Since, Harriet Tubman helped create something, it means that whatever she did has already happened and its a fact. The usage of would is definitely inappropriate here. The only thing that is being said is that "seeing from the past time" , the creation of the Underground Railroad happened in the future and so would would have to be used to express this scenario. However, an alternate construction should be used. Words such as later and before convey the meaning of what happened before or later something else happened.
The ideal construction for this questions should be "... helped create what later became known as the Underground....". A construction such as "... what would become known is.." is directly contradictory to OG Verbal and therefore would be incorrect on the GMAT. On the GMAT day, if this construction comes, I would definitely mark it as incorrect!
Moreover, a lot of SC concepts that Manhattan GMAT CAT has applied are in direct contradiction with OG 11 and OG Verbal. You may see my other posts. I just hope that Manhattan GMAT seriously looks into them or else students run the risk of learning incorrect concepts and faring badly in their GMAT.
Hope the Manhattan Verbal faculty is listening!!
- Guest
In GMAT you got to pick the best answer choice among all the answer choices. Correct Answer choice may or may not be grammatically correct by all standards.If all the answers have some mistake you got to think what are the choices you can eliminate on the basis on Basic Grammar rule violation...such as Sub. - Verb agreement, Tense. Mood etc.
Here the best choice is Answer choice E
Here the best choice is Answer choice E
- TP
Re: I stick to my logic!
poojakrishnamurthy1@gmail Wrote:Hi Hanumayamma,
I agree with you when you say that in "some" contexts will and would are virtually interchangable. I'm not disputing that fact. All I'm saying that no matter what the context, would CANNOT be used to state a fact. In fact the link you quoted http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/auxiliary.htm#would doesn't even mention one example where would is used to state a fact. The site says -
1. Would can also be used to express willingness:
* Would you please take off your hat?
2. It can also express insistence (rather rare, and with a strong stress on the word "would"):
* Now you've ruined everything. You would act that way.
and characteristic activity:
* customary: After work, he would walk to his home in West Hartford.
* typical (casual): She would cause the whole family to be late, every time.
In a main clause, would can express a hypothetical meaning:
* My cocker spaniel would weigh a ton if I let her eat what she wants.
Finally, would can express a sense of probability:
* I hear a whistle. That would be the five o'clock train.
Coming back to the sentence -
Before the Civil War, Harriet Tubman, along with other former slaves and white abolitionists, helped create what had become known as the Underground Railroad, and were responsible for leading hundreds, if not thousands, of slaves to freedom.
Since, Harriet Tubman helped create something, it means that whatever she did has already happened and its a fact. The usage of would is definitely inappropriate here. The only thing that is being said is that "seeing from the past time" , the creation of the Underground Railroad happened in the future and so would would have to be used to express this scenario. However, an alternate construction should be used. Words such as later and before convey the meaning of what happened before or later something else happened.
The ideal construction for this questions should be "... helped create what later became known as the Underground....". A construction such as "... what would become known is.." is directly contradictory to OG Verbal and therefore would be incorrect on the GMAT. On the GMAT day, if this construction comes, I would definitely mark it as incorrect!
Moreover, a lot of SC concepts that Manhattan GMAT CAT has applied are in direct contradiction with OG 11 and OG Verbal. You may see my other posts. I just hope that Manhattan GMAT seriously looks into them or else students run the risk of learning incorrect concepts and faring badly in their GMAT.
Hope the Manhattan Verbal faculty is listening!!
"Would" can be used in passive form to indicate "Future in the Past" forms
(http://www.englishpage.com/verbpage/futureinpast.html). In this case the
portion "would become known" is correct?
- jwinawer
- ManhattanGMAT Staff
- Posts: 76
- Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2004 1:15 pm
The right answer is E. Lots of great discussion here. I will sum up and add one point:
1. AB / CDE
subject verb agreement:
"Harriet Tubman" is singular and so requires the singular "was". That is an inviolable rule and hence eliminates A&B with absolutely zero ambiguity. Cross them out and don't look back.
2. C / D / E
had / has been / would
The question is one of relative time. Which happened first, (a) she helped create the railroad, or (b) it became known as ... ?
Creating came first. It could not have become known as something BEFORE it was created. E makes this clear. C falsely implies the reverse order. D falsely implies that they occurred at the same time.
I can't comment on the OG problem you refer to because of copyright rules. But I see no problem with "would" here: it conveys that the action occurs after the main action (creating) and before the present.
1. AB / CDE
subject verb agreement:
"Harriet Tubman" is singular and so requires the singular "was". That is an inviolable rule and hence eliminates A&B with absolutely zero ambiguity. Cross them out and don't look back.
2. C / D / E
had / has been / would
The question is one of relative time. Which happened first, (a) she helped create the railroad, or (b) it became known as ... ?
Creating came first. It could not have become known as something BEFORE it was created. E makes this clear. C falsely implies the reverse order. D falsely implies that they occurred at the same time.
I can't comment on the OG problem you refer to because of copyright rules. But I see no problem with "would" here: it conveys that the action occurs after the main action (creating) and before the present.
11 posts Page 1 of 1