Custom officers

[Saurabh Malpani]

The following question is from Test Code 55 Section 6 Question 16:

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No matter how patiently they explain their reasons for confiscating certain items, travelers often treat customs inspectors like wanton poachers rather than government employees.
(A) travelers often treat customs inspectors like wanton poachers rather than government employees
(B) travelers often treat customs inspectors as wanton poachers instead of government employees
(C) travelers often treat customs inspectors as if they were not government employees but wanton poachers
(D) customs inspectors are often treated by travelers as if they were wanton poachers rather than government employees
(E) customs inspectors are often treated not like government employees but wanton poachers by travelers

Can you please disect the SC and suggest why D is prefered over E. The reasons I can think is the omission of "LIKE" after BUT.

Please help!
Thanks
Saurabh Malpan

[JadranLee]

Hi Saurabh,

Answers (A) - (C) are wrong because the initial "they", in the clause preceding the comma, refers to "travelers". It makes more sense for that "they" to refer to "customs inspectors", as it does in (D) and (E).

There are several problems with (E):

i) the words "by travelers" are too far away from the verb they are intended to modify ("treated"). An adverbial modifier such as "by travelers" need not be right next to the verb it is intended to modify, but it should be close enough to be unambiguous. In answer choice (E) "by travelers" could be functioning as an adjectival modifier, describing "poachers".

ii) in the expression "not X, but Y", parallelism requires that if X starts with a preposition such as "like", Y must also start with a preposition. So, as you pointed out, the omission of "like" after "but" is a problem with (E).

iii) it is idiomatically better to say "treat as" than to say "treat like".

-Jad

The following question is from Test Code 55 Section 6 Question 16:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No matter how patiently they explain their reasons for confiscating certain items, travelers often treat customs inspectors like wanton poachers rather than government employees.
(A) travelers often treat customs inspectors like wanton poachers rather than government employees
(B) travelers often treat customs inspectors as wanton poachers instead of government employees
(C) travelers often treat customs inspectors as if they were not government employees but wanton poachers
(D) customs inspectors are often treated by travelers as if they were wanton poachers rather than government employees
(E) customs inspectors are often treated not like government employees but wanton poachers by travelers

Can you please disect the SC and suggest why D is prefered over E. The reasons I can think is the omission of "LIKE" after BUT.

Please help!
Thanks
Saurabh Malpan

[Saurabh Malpani]

Excellent!!!!!! I completely missed As Vs Like. Thanks for the clarification.

Can you please explain a bi ton "by travelers" could be functioning as an adjectival modifier, describing "poachers".

I don't think i got it!

Thanks
Saurabh Malpani


One quick thing when you say the proacher

Hi Saurabh,

Answers (A) - (C) are wrong because the initial "they", in the clause preceding the comma, refers to "travelers". It makes more sense for that "they" to refer to "customs inspectors", as it does in (D) and (E).

There are several problems with (E):

i) the words "by travelers" are too far away from the verb they are intended to modify ("treated"). An adverbial modifier such as "by travelers" need not be right next to the verb it is intended to modify, but it should be close enough to be unambiguous. In answer choice (E) "by travelers" could be functioning as an adjectival modifier, describing "poachers".

ii) in the expression "not X, but Y", parallelism requires that if X starts with a preposition such as "like", Y must also start with a preposition. So, as you pointed out, the omission of "like" after "but" is a problem with (E).

iii) it is idiomatically better to say "treat as" than to say "treat like".

-Jad

The following question is from Test Code 55 Section 6 Question 16:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No matter how patiently they explain their reasons for confiscating certain items, travelers often treat customs inspectors like wanton poachers rather than government employees.
(A) travelers often treat customs inspectors like wanton poachers rather than government employees
(B) travelers often treat customs inspectors as wanton poachers instead of government employees
(C) travelers often treat customs inspectors as if they were not government employees but wanton poachers
(D) customs inspectors are often treated by travelers as if they were wanton poachers rather than government employees
(E) customs inspectors are often treated not like government employees but wanton poachers by travelers

Can you please disect the SC and suggest why D is prefered over E. The reasons I can think is the omission of "LIKE" after BUT.

Please help!
Thanks
Saurabh Malpan

[JadranLee]

Hi Saurabh -

Consider this sentence:

Elizabeth was given a book by Ernest Hemingway.

The sentence is unclear, because it could mean

(1) "Ernest Hemingway gave Elizabeth a book." (not necessarily a book that Hemingway himself had written).

or

(2) "Somebody gave Elizabeth a book written by Ernest Hemingway."

In the first interpretation, "by Ernest Hemingway" tells us who gave the book, whereas in the second interpretation "by Ernest Hemingway" is an adjectival modifier telling us who wrote the book.

For similar reasons, the "by travelers" at the end of answer choice (E) creates ambiguity. It's best to put "by travelers" next to the verb "treated", which it is intended to modify.

[quote="Saurabh Malpani"]Excellent!!!!!! I completely missed As Vs Like. Thanks for the clarification.

Can you please explain a bi ton "by travelers" could be functioning as an adjectival modifier, describing "poachers".

I don't think i got it!

Thanks
Saurabh Malpani

[Saurabh Malpani]

Jad,

Thanks for your explanation. To continue our discussion in the following question is the phrase "by soviets" correct? --I know in option A the idiom is wrong that's fine but what I want to know is say if it was for rather than as would the sentence have bene correct? The source is from OG 10th q150

150. In the mid-1960's a newly installed radar warning system mistook the rising of the moon as a massive
missile attack by the Soviets.
A )rising of the moon as a massive missile attack by the Soviets
B) rising of the moon for a massive Soviet missile attack
C) moon rising to a massive missile attack by the Soviets
D )moon as it was rising for a massive Soviet missile attack
E )rise of the moon as a massive Soviet missile attack

Hi Saurabh -

Consider this sentence:

Elizabeth was given a book by Ernest Hemingway.

The sentence is unclear, because it could mean

(1) "Ernest Hemingway gave Elizabeth a book." (not necessarily a book that Hemingway himself had written).

or

(2) "Somebody gave Elizabeth a book written by Ernest Hemingway."

In the first interpretation, "by Ernest Hemingway" tells us who gave the book, whereas in the second interpretation "by Ernest Hemingway" is an adjectival modifier telling us who wrote the book.

For similar reasons, the "by travelers" at the end of answer choice (E) creates ambiguity. It's best to put "by travelers" next to the verb "treated", which it is intended to modify.

Excellent!!!!!! I completely missed As Vs Like. Thanks for the clarification.

Can you please explain a bi ton "by travelers" could be functioning as an adjectival modifier, describing "poachers".

I don't think i got it!

Thanks
Saurabh Malpani

[GMAT 5/18]

Saurabh,

Is the correct answer B? I think the idiom here should be "mistook FOR" rather than "mistook AS". Initially, I wanted to choose E., but I went with "for" over "as".

I'll leave your actual question for Jad, as I am in no position to give a clear answer!

[StaceyKoprince]

Hi, Saurabh

It's generally best to open a new thread when posting a new question. Also, FYI, most of the instructors are only assigned one day a week, so Jad (or any individual instructor with whom you exchange posts) may not be back around to answer once his / her day is over for that week. (Yet more reason to open a new thread when posting a new question.)

Re: "by the Soviets," the attack was conducted by the Soviets, so placement is okay for that reason. It is more concise, however, to turn the phrase "by the Soviets" into the plain adjective "Soviet" - gives the right meaning in the cleanest, shortest way.

I'm guessing OG didn't even address this part of the sentence in its explanation, although the answer choices show clear differences. Sometimes they will change part of a sentence just to get you to think, "Hmm, is it right to write it this way or that way?" when in fact some other part of the sentence contains the error.

[ajishashah]

Hi,

In option D : customs inspectors are often treated by travelers as if they were wanton poachers rather than government employees

Can they refer to "travelers"
Is the use of "they" in this part ambiguous ?

[RonPurewal]

Hi,

In option D : customs inspectors are often treated by travelers as if they were wanton poachers rather than government employees

Can they refer to "travelers"
Is the use of "they" in this part ambiguous ?

from a purely technical standpoint one could regard this pronoun as ambiguous, but remember that many technically ambiguous pronouns are actually acceptable on the gmat.

for the precise conditions under which ambiguous pronouns are most commonly acceptable, see the following two posts:

----- READ THESE POSTS FIRST -----

post30203.html#p30203
post35036.html#p35036


----- ONCE YOU'VE READ THOSE POSTS -----

note that these conditions also apply in the current sentence.

1) clear context: if you understand what the sentence is trying to say, it's clear that "they" is intended to stand for customs inspectors, not travelers.

2) parallelism/nonparallelism:
"they" is the SUBJECT of its clause
"customs inspectors" is the SUBJECT of its clause
"travelers" is not the subject of its clause (it's the object of a preposition)

since both sets of conditions are satisfied, this is an example of a technically ambiguous pronoun that is still perfectly acceptable.

[phuonglink]

Jad,

150. In the mid-1960's a newly installed radar warning system mistook the rising of the moon as a massive
missile attack by the Soviets.
A )rising of the moon as a massive missile attack by the Soviets
B) rising of the moon for a massive Soviet missile attack
C) moon rising to a massive missile attack by the Soviets
D )moon as it was rising for a massive Soviet missile attack
E )rise of the moon as a massive Soviet missile attack

Hi Saurabh -
Thanks
Saurabh Malpani

[/quote]
hi,
I would like to ask what the difference between "the rising of the moon" and "the rise of the moon" is. Is it wrong to use "the rise of the moon"?
Many thanks in advanced.

[tim]

yes it is wrong to use "rise of the moon". think of when you would use the phrase "rise of X": "rise of the machines", "rise of the apes", "the rise of COBRA", "rise of the silver surfer". this construction indicates a person or group's ascendancy to power rather, which is not what is happening to the moon..