Demonstrative Pronouns

[happyface101]

Hi - I came across the rule that Demonstrative Pronouns such as "that" is used not in conjunction with a noun, they should not refer to a noun that is located within the same clause. I didn't quite understand this rule and would appreciate your explanation / a few examples. Thank you!

[sabrinax431]

Hi - I came across the rule that Demonstrative Pronouns such as "that" is used not in conjunction with a noun, they should not refer to a noun that is located within the same clause. I didn't quite understand this rule and would appreciate your explanation / a few examples. Thank you!

It seems to me, demonstrative pronoun is somewhat like an adjective, so it is unlikely to stand for a noun.

[RonPurewal]

frankly, i don't understand this rule either.
i don't know the terminology; as a result, i don't have clue #1 about what the claim is.

where did you see this?

...and, i trust, it must have been accompanied by at least an example or two.
what example(s) was/were provided to illustrate it?

thanks.

[RonPurewal]

more generally, remember how the human brain works:

RULES STATED IN "RULE FORM" = BAD
EXAMPLES = GOOD

^^ that.
that's how the human brain works.

our brains are absolutely horrible at using "rules", except in the most simplistic, otherwise random cases (e.g., "drive on the right"; "green means go, red means stop").

on the other hand, our brains LOVE analogies to specific examples.
this is precisely the reason why experience is so valuable to human beings: it stores tons and tons of examples in our brains, examples to which we can readily draw analogies in similar situations that develop later.

that's the way the brain is "wired" to learn... so you should most certainly try to learn that way.
without a set of canonical, easy-to-understand examples, "rules" like this one are garbage.


--

think about it from another perspective: if we learned things mostly as "rules", then experience would be worthless!

as a pointed illustration, consider computer chips, which "learn" ENTIRELY by using "rules".
if your old computer has 7 years of experience running programs, does that increase its value? well... no.
if you have 7 years of experience dealing with certain types of professional situations, does that increase your value? well... YES!
if you meditate on this difference for a bit, you'll realize a great deal about how you should learn (and how you shouldn't).

[RonPurewal]

so, in light of that little rant above, please provide whatever example(s) may have accompanied the original claim (to which you're referring in the original post).

...and, of course, if the original source didn't contain any examples, then run away from it as fast as you can. run! run!

[happyface101]

so, in light of that little rant above, please provide whatever example(s) may have accompanied the original claim (to which you're referring in the original post).

...and, of course, if the original source didn't contain any examples, then run away from it as fast as you can. run! run!

Haha thanks for the replies. I saw the rule in the Navigator's explanation to OG sentence correction 69. I guess I'm not allowed to post the official guide question on here? The explanation said:

When demonstrative pronouns are used alone, not in conjunction with a noun, such as "that car" they should not refer to a noun that is located within the same main clause. In answer D, the pronoun "that" refers to Morocco, which is in the same main clause. Thanks!

[RonPurewal]

ok, here's the deal: we're talking about "that" used BY ITSELF.
i.e.,
...not in a comparison structure ("that of xxx", etc.),
...not as an adjective ("that NOUN").

here are some guidelines.

• NEVER use standalone "that" to stand for a NOUN.
....because we have the word "it" for this reason.

• if "that" is used for a whole idea (= something for which you CAN'T use a normal pronoun) AND there are clear errors in the other choices...then you can (grudgingly) accept this usage.

e.g.,
An 'alpha' dog will generally not howl in response to sirens, since that is a telltale behavior of submissive 'beta' dogs.
--> here, "that" stands for the notion of howling in response to sirens (= something that can't be represented by a pronoun). so, as long as there are clearer problems with the other choices, we could accept this formulation.

[RonPurewal]

by the way, the first boldface exhortation above ("NEVER use standalone 'that' for a noun") is sufficient to eliminate the choice discussed above.

and, yes, thanks for not posting the actual problem.