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phuonglink
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by phuonglink Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:43 am

Anne1276 Wrote:Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel Kirkland, the Oneida was the only one of the five-nation Iroquois League who sided with the colonists during the American Revolution.

A) Same
B) was alone of the five-nation Iroquois League when they sided
C) alone among the five nations of the Iroquois League sided
D) were the only ones out of the five nations of the Iroquois League in siding
E) only of the five-nation Iroquois League had sided

I picked A because I thought Oneida was singular and "was" corresponded. The answer is C and I am not sure why C is correct and A is incorrect. Thanks!


is (D) wrong because "were the only ones" is awkward and ungramatical?
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by tim Sun Nov 28, 2010 3:09 pm

Yes, the phrase you highlighted is wrong because it is ungrammatical. Of course, it is not the only thing that is ungrammatical about the answer choice. You also need to be careful eliminating something that is "awkward", as there is no standard definition of what constitutes "awkward"..
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by phuonglink Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:29 pm

tim Wrote:Yes, the phrase you highlighted is wrong because it is ungrammatical. Of course, it is not the only thing that is ungrammatical about the answer choice. You also need to be careful eliminating something that is "awkward", as there is no standard definition of what constitutes "awkward"..

Thank you Tim.
1. I have another aproach to eliminate D. "in siding" which modifies for "five nation" change the meaning of the sentence.
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by RonPurewal Sun Jan 16, 2011 2:57 am

phuonglink Wrote:1. I have another aproach to eliminate D. "in siding" which modifies for "five nation" change the meaning of the sentence.


it doesn't modify "five nations"; rather, it modifies the entire clause that follows.** but, yes, you are correct: the meaning of this particular wording is incorrect in this case.

in general, the modifier "in VERBing", whether it's an initial modifier or a modifier that comes after the clause, should point to an action that is done in the process of, or as a component of, the action of VERBing.
for instance:
lesley used the internet a great deal in researching the subject of her report.
this meaning does not apply here, so the modifier is inappropriate.

--

** note that prepositional-phrase modifiers, if not set off by commas, can modify EITHER the preceding noun / noun phrase OR the entire action of the preceding clause (equivalent to "modifying the clause itself").
for instance:
i read the book on the train --> this prepositional phrase modifies the ACTION "read the book", and/or the CLAUSE "i read the book" (not much distinction between these two interpretations; modifying an action and modifying a clause are basically the same thing).
i read the book on the table --> this prepositional phrase modifies the NOUN "book".
since both of these are generally possibilities, you need to use intuition / common sense to figure out which one applies in the problem at hand.
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by phuonglink Sun Jan 16, 2011 11:55 am

thank you for teaching me the grammar point Ron. You are awesome.
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by RonPurewal Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:04 pm

thanks.
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by saintjingjing Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:28 pm

RonPurewal Wrote:
phuonglink Wrote:1. I have another aproach to eliminate D. "in siding" which modifies for "five nation" change the meaning of the sentence.


it doesn't modify "five nations"; rather, it modifies the entire clause that follows.** but, yes, you are correct: the meaning of this particular wording is incorrect in this case.

in general, the modifier "in VERBing", whether it's an initial modifier or a modifier that comes after the clause, should point to an action that is done in the process of, or as a component of, the action of VERBing.
for instance:
lesley used the internet a great deal in researching the subject of her report.
this meaning does not apply here, so the modifier is inappropriate.

--

** note that positional-phrase modifiers, if not set off by commas, can modify EITHER the preceding noun / noun phrase OR the entire action of the preceding clause (equivalent to "modifying the clause itself").
for instance:
i read the book on the train --> this prepositional phrase modifies the ACTION "read the book", and/or the CLAUSE "i read the book" (not much distinction between these two interpretations; modifying an action and modifying a clause are basically the same thing).
i read the book on the table --> this prepositional phrase modifies the NOUN "book".
since both of these are generally possibilities, you need to use intuition / common sense to figure out which one applies in the problem at hand.


yes, ron explainations are useful, en I want to ask about
---subject verb noun/ noun phrase+ comma + the positional-phrase modifiers,
Can it modify EITHER the preceding noun / noun phrase OR the entire action of the preceding clause? and the judgement depends on common sense/ the true meaning, right ?
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by saintjingjing Thu Sep 01, 2011 10:33 pm

RonPurewal Wrote:
phuonglink Wrote:1. I have another aproach to eliminate D. "in siding" which modifies for "five nation" change the meaning of the sentence.


it doesn't modify "five nations"; rather, it modifies the entire clause that follows.** but, yes, you are correct: the meaning of this particular wording is incorrect in this case.

in general, the modifier "in VERBing", whether it's an initial modifier or a modifier that comes after the clause, should point to an action that is done in the process of, or as a component of, the action of VERBing.
for instance:
lesley used the internet a great deal in researching the subject of her report.
this meaning does not apply here, so the modifier is inappropriate.

/[quote]

and ron, can you give me a example about in Verbing AS YOU say ahead? I want to say a right sentence include the modifer inVERBING'.
and Ron, you say positional-phrase modifiers ---> in researching/ siding. but in fact I realize that preposition + Verbing 's usage --> in siding. so if I want to remember a rule about positional phrase modifers, I think I can only remember rules about prepostion + Verbing, right?
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by RonPurewal Wed Sep 07, 2011 3:28 pm

saintjingjing Wrote:and ron, can you give me a example about in Verbing AS YOU say ahead? I want to say a right sentence include the modifer inVERBING'.


sorry, i don't understand what this says. it appears that you might be asking me for an example of "in + VERBing" -- but there is already an example sentence in the post that you quoted (the one about lesley).

and Ron, you say positional-phrase modifiers ---> in researching/ siding. but in fact I realize that preposition + Verbing 's usage --> in siding. so if I want to remember a rule about positional phrase modifers, I think I can only remember rules about prepostion + Verbing, right?


i'm sorry, i don't understand what you are asking.
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by saintjingjing Mon Sep 12, 2011 12:25 am

I think I got it.
first, I am confused about ron's post,

ron says positional phrase, but later use prepositional phrase as example/.
I do not understand, but now I guess I think ron maybe want to say prepositional phrase not poistional phrase, right?
and
in siding in SC, but it is not positional phrase(ron says), right? it likes prepositional + simple Gerund,
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by RonPurewal Thu Oct 06, 2011 6:51 am

saintjingjing Wrote:I think I got it.
first, I am confused about ron's post,

ron says positional phrase, but later use prepositional phrase as example/.
I do not understand, but now I guess I think ron maybe want to say prepositional phrase not poistional phrase, right?


yeah, that was a typo. i fixed it.
thanks

(i don't think that there is anything called a "positional phrase")
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by josefdong Tue Dec 10, 2013 3:33 am

I'd like to add other points of view to this question:

1. "five-nation" is actually an adjective. So, the five-nation Iroquois League is a singular noun phrase. We cannot say "one of/ alone of/ only of / the five-nation Iroquois League". i.e. these constructions seem like "one of apple/ alone of apple / only of apple". So, we can kill A, B and E.

2. in Choice B, "they" has no clear referent, because "was" already signifies "the Oneida" as a singular noun that is not consistent with "they", and because "Iroquois" actually acts as an adjective(Pronoun can only refer noun and noun phrase).

3. in Choice D, "ones" groundlessly assumes that the Oneida consist of more than one nations and, in turn, changes the meaning.

4. in Choice E, past perfect tense "had sided" has no ground, because there is no specific past-time sign on which past perfect tense should be based.

Dear tutors, just correct me if I'm wrong.
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by RonPurewal Sun Dec 15, 2013 8:26 am

josefdong Wrote:I'd like to add other points of view to this question:

1. "five-nation" is actually an adjective. So, the five-nation Iroquois League is a singular noun phrase. We cannot say "one of/ alone of/ only of / the five-nation Iroquois League". i.e. these constructions seem like "one of apple/ alone of apple / only of apple". So, we can kill A, B and E.

2. in Choice B, "they" has no clear referent, because "was" already signifies "the Oneida" as a singular noun that is not consistent with "they", and because "Iroquois" actually acts as an adjective(Pronoun can only refer noun and noun phrase).

3. in Choice D, "ones" groundlessly assumes that the Oneida consist of more than one nations and, in turn, changes the meaning.

4. in Choice E, past perfect tense "had sided" has no ground, because there is no specific past-time sign on which past perfect tense should be based.

Dear tutors, just correct me if I'm wrong.


1/
This is a perfect analysis. Very well done.

2/
You may as well go take the test right now.
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by ojasvis696 Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:59 pm

Rohit mentioned that who shall be incorrect if Oneida is taken as a league , My doubt is "who" as mentioned by RON in some other question ( I dont exactly remember the exact wordings of the questioned ) can refer to inanimate objects unlike "whose" that can only refer to animate objects . Pls clarify the same RON . Thanks
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Re: Greatly influenced by the Protestant missionary Samuel

by RonPurewal Sun Aug 03, 2014 7:00 pm

Backward.

"Who": Only people
"Whose": Either people or things

The possessive of "who(m)" is "whose":
I would like to talk to the person who came here yesterday.
I would like to talk to the person whose bag is on the table.


The possessive of "that"/"which" is also "whose":
Rachel was driving the truck that ran off the freeway yesterday.
Rachel was driving the truck whose tire exploded on the freeway yesterday.