In the mid-1920s the Hawthorne Works

[mayank]

(b) is the best choice here.

(a) is vague because it's overly indirect: the meaning of "investigate changes ... as to their effects" is unclear. what's more, it's probably considered unidiomatic as well, at least in this sort of context.

(b) = correct
the participle "investigating" follows "experiments" immediately. no filler words are necessary; this is good concision.
the wording is clear; there are no awkward double possessives, etc., as in some of the other choices.
"would" is used properly here, as a past-tense form of "will". (i.e., if this sentence were translated into the present tense, it would read "...that changes ... will have")

Ron, I am a little confused about the explanation why b is correct. According to another post on this forum, Prep. of + Noun + VerbING is considered incorrect. Doesn't that same principle apply here?

See post:
post26678.html

[RonPurewal]

Ron, I am a little confused about the explanation why b is correct. According to another post on this forum, Prep. of + Noun + VerbING is considered incorrect. Doesn't that same principle apply here?

See post:
post26678.html

you can't just memorize that result; you have to be able to understand how to process that sort of construction, which is correct in some circumstances and incorrect in others.

in this case, the construction is perfectly fine, because the intended object of "of" is actually "experiments" (not the action of investigating).
therefore, this construction is analogous to the CORRECT example given in that thread ("i have a picture of my cousin playing hockey"), not to the incorrect ones.

[ShyT]

after reviewing this problem I am trying to apply an unorthodox method that seems to work for me sometimes, especially with meaning/modifer sentences. I was just hoping if one of the instructors were to give me the green light on whether my reasoning is correct.

For this specific problem

In the mid-1920s the Hawthorne Works of the Western Electric Company was the scene of an intensive series of experiments that would investigate changes in working conditions as to theireffects on workers' performance.


I try to weave out all of the unimportant modifiers to make sense of the true sentence and before the underlined portion I am left with this.

The H. Works was the scene ________

A,D crossed out, have "that investigate" seems like would mean that the scene is doing the investigation.

As stated above C is just terrible wordy,

So left with B&D and again "to investigate" (filled in my underline portion) also seems almost like.. who is investigating?

that's why I chose B?

Is this approach logical or did I simply get lucky? can I reuse it?

Thanks

[RonPurewal]

A,D crossed out, have "that investigate" seems like would mean that the scene is doing the investigation.

no. why wouldn't you just apply "that" to the noun phrase right next to it?
a series of experiments that investigated...

this is still somewhat problematic, in the sense that people (not experiments) have to "investigate" things, but the issue is not what you have written here.

As stated above C is just terrible wordy,

you should NEVER judge the "wordiness" of an INDIVIDUAL answer choice.
you should judge "wordiness" only RELATIVE TO OTHER CHOICES.

in other words, you should never just say "(c) is wordy". instead, it should always be "(c) is MORE wordy than [other choice]".

[vijay19839]

Ron

Can we eliminate Options A & D with the below logic:-

Option A:- "Experiments that would investigate changes.."
Option D:- "Experiments that investigated changes..:

Both means that Experiments will be investigating the changes and looks nonsensical.

(As per your One of the classes in Thursdays with Ron, This rule wasn't applicable for few words such as 'Idea', 'Notion' etc as the entire 'that clause' is the idea or Notion..

"The Idea that X.." or "The Notion that Y..."

Thanks
Vijay

A,D crossed out, have "that investigate" seems like would mean that the scene is doing the investigation.

no. why wouldn't you just apply "that" to the noun phrase right next to it?
a series of experiments that investigated...

this is still somewhat problematic, in the sense that people (not experiments) have to "investigate" things, but the issue is not what you have written here.

As stated above C is just terrible wordy,

you should NEVER judge the "wordiness" of an INDIVIDUAL answer choice.
you should judge "wordiness" only RELATIVE TO OTHER CHOICES.

in other words, you should never just say "(c) is wordy". instead, it should always be "(c) is MORE wordy than [other choice]".

[jlucero]

Ron

Can we eliminate Options A & D with the below logic:-

Option A:- "Experiments that would investigate changes.."
Option D:- "Experiments that investigated changes..:

Both means that Experiments will be investigating the changes and looks nonsensical.

(As per your One of the classes in Thursdays with Ron, This rule wasn't applicable for few words such as 'Idea', 'Notion' etc as the entire 'that clause' is the idea or Notion..

"The Idea that X.." or "The Notion that Y..."

Thanks
Vijay

Not in this case, Vijay. Although the people behind the experiments are the ones investigating the changes, you can use words like experiments, tests, or results to express an active idea.

The experiments found that...
The tests show that...
The results clearly demonstrate that...

Which mean that these are the experiments that found something, tests that show something, and results that clearly demonstrate something else.

[vijay19839]

Thanks Joe for the clarification.

-Vijay

Ron

Can we eliminate Options A & D with the below logic:-

Option A:- "Experiments that would investigate changes.."
Option D:- "Experiments that investigated changes..:

Both means that Experiments will be investigating the changes and looks nonsensical.

(As per your One of the classes in Thursdays with Ron, This rule wasn't applicable for few words such as 'Idea', 'Notion' etc as the entire 'that clause' is the idea or Notion..

"The Idea that X.." or "The Notion that Y..."

Thanks
Vijay

Not in this case, Vijay. Although the people behind the experiments are the ones investigating the changes, you can use words like experiments, tests, or results to express an active idea.

The experiments found that...
The tests show that...
The results clearly demonstrate that...

Which mean that these are the experiments that found something, tests that show something, and results that clearly demonstrate something else.

[tim]

:)

[mcmebk]

(b) is the best choice here.

(a) is vague because it's overly indirect: the meaning of "investigate changes ... as to their effects" is unclear. what's more, it's probably considered unidiomatic as well, at least in this sort of context.

(b) = correct
the participle "investigating" follows "experiments" immediately. no filler words are necessary; this is good concision.
the wording is clear; there are no awkward double possessives, etc., as in some of the other choices.
"would" is used properly here, as a past-tense form of "will". (i.e., if this sentence were translated into the present tense, it would read "...that changes ... will have")

(c) is ridiculously wordy; there's no way you should give this choice any serious consideration. if you don't realize pretty quickly that this choice is wrong, you should go back and read through a bunch of correct OG answers, trying to internalize the sights and sounds (the "vibe") of the correct answers.

(d) "changes in working conditions' effects" is at best awkward and vague, and at worst ambiguous: the intended meaning is the effects of the changes, but this sentence seems to indicated the effects of the conditions themselves. in other words, a literal reading of this sentence seems to indicate that the conditions themselves haven't changed - only their effects have. that's not the intended meaning of the original.

(e) "what the effects" is ungrammatical.
also, in constructions of this sort, "what" is generally redundant / unnecessary; it's better merely to say "to investigate X" rather than to say "to investigate what X is" (or other such wordy construction).

Hi Ron

I think there are two more obvious problems with A:

1) Investigate changes in working conditions - Wrong, what the experiment actually investigated was the effects, not changes;

2) Would investigate... - Wrong; would can be either used as a past tense of will (not applied here) or a sense of likely in a hypothetical situation (not applied here either); the correct usage of the word "would" here is shown in sentence 2, the conditions would have...since it is a to be discovered results by the time the experiments started investigating.

Thank you Ron for everything

[jlucero]

Hi Ron

I think there are two more obvious problems with A:

1) Investigate changes in working conditions - Wrong, what the experiment actually investigated was the effects, not changes;

2) Would investigate... - Wrong; would can be either used as a past tense of will (not applied here) or a sense of likely in a hypothetical situation (not applied here either); the correct usage of the word "would" here is shown in sentence 2, the conditions would have...since it is a to be discovered results by the time the experiments started investigating.

Thank you Ron for everything

There's definitely lots of ways to eliminate answer choices. I'll definitely agree with you on the second point, but I think your first point bleeds into what Ron mentioned. The sentence would be fine saying "experiments that would investigate changes AND their effects on..." As Ron said, the "as to their effects" is an awkward way of trying to talk about the changes and effects together. You are right that the effects are important, but I don't think you could say that the changes are necessarily unimportant.

[imhimanshujaggi]

Hello Instructors,
I would like to understand the Subject Verb Agreement in the Main Clause.

Subject: The Hawthrone Works
Verb: Was
Isn't it a forward construction and verb should be "were" instead of "was" ?

In the mid-1920s the Hawthorne Works of the Western Electric Company was the scene of anintensive series of experiments that would investigate changes in working conditions as to theireffects on workers' performance.

Another sentence from Gprep -
The health benefits of tea have been the subject of much research; in addition to its possibilities for preventing and inhibiting some forms of cancer, the brewed leaves of Camellia sinensis may also play a role in reducing the risk of heart disease and stroke.
Here, Subject: The Health Benefits
Verb : have been

Structurally both sentences are same, but first one has a singular verb. I know that I am missing something, and would like MGMAT Instructors to help me out.
Thank You.

Thanks,
imhimanshu

[RonPurewal]

Hello Instructors,
I would like to understand the Subject Verb Agreement in the Main Clause.

Subject: The Hawthrone Works
Verb: Was
Isn't it a forward construction and verb should be "were" instead of "was" ?

"The Hawthorne Works" is a company, so it's singular. It's not more than one company.

Similarly, "the United States" is also singular, because it's a single country.
The United States has approximately 300 million citizens --> Yes.
The United States have approximately 300 million citizens --> No.
You probably know this already. "Hawthorne Works" is similar. One entity, so, singular.

It's probably not a coincidence that the verb isn't underlined. They wouldn't make this an issue, unless there were some other proof elsewhere (e.g., another singular verb, or the pronoun "it", or something like that) that this noun is singular.

[RonPurewal]

Hi Ron & other experts,
i have a question here.
Does the phrase 'an experiment investigating XX' technically differ from the phrase 'an experiment to investigate XX'
Can 'to investigate' modify the experiment?

I'd say this is a non-difference.

[chetan86]

Hi Ron,

I was stuck between B and D and finally selected D because I could understand the meaning of option B properly.


-- below discussion is only on option B. --

experiments investigating the effects that changes in working conditions would have on workers' performance.

Could you please explain the role of "changes in working conditions" in this sentence?

If I remove "changes in working conditions" then below sentence makes sense?
xxx experiments investigating the effects that would have on workers' performance.

Thanks!!
Chetan

[RonPurewal]

experiments investigating the effects that changes in working conditions would have on workers' performance.

Could you please explain the role of "changes in working conditions" in this sentence?

it's a noun (+ modifier). it's the subject of "would have" (whose object is "changes").

if you don't see how this works, just replace the boldface stuff with a shorter noun, like "things".

Things would have these effects.
––> These are the effects that things would have.