Present perfect tense and conditional

[manhhiep2509]

In OG 13, question 78 has an issue related to present perfect and conditional. I modified the correct choice as below:

The question is whether the residents will come to visit the art museum to see artifacts once the admission fee has been increased.

I do not understand what is the difference between the use of present perfect in the sentence with the use of simple present if I replace "has been increased" by "is increased".

Secondly, does "once" indicate the use of present perfect?

Please explain the issues.

Thank you.

[RonPurewal]

In OG 13, question 78 has an issue related to present perfect and conditional. I modified the correct choice as below:

The question is whether the residents will come to visit the art museum to see artifacts once the admission fee has been increased.

I do not understand what is the difference between the use of present perfect in the sentence with the use of simple present if I replace "has been increased" by "is increased".

Secondly, does "once" indicate the use of present perfect?

Please explain the issues.

Thank you.

I don't remember the terms ("present perfect" etc), so you're on your own with the terminology. But I can tell you how it works:

If it says "after", then you need "is increased". ("Have been increased" refers to the impact that persists after the increase, so "after the fee has been increased" doesn't make sense.)

If it says "once xxxxx", then xxxx must describe the actual situation (as opposed to "after xxxxx", in which xxxxx is something that came before).
The actual situation comes after an increase -- but at a time when the increase is clearly relevant -- so "has been increased" works. "Is increased" doesn't.
(Imagine you're one of the people sitting in this future situation. Can you say "The fee has been increased?" Yes. Can you say "The fee is increased?" No.)

Most importantly, small differences between tenses are NEVER the only thing wrong in a SC problem. If you see a subtle difference like this, look for other things first.

[manhhiep2509]

Thanks Ron. There are some points I still need your help.

If it says "after", then you need "is increased". ("Have been increased" refers to the impact that persists after the increase, so "after the fee has been increased" doesn't make sense.)

The question is whether the residents will come to visit the art museum to see artifacts once the admission fee has been increased.

1. Did you mean "impact" is "the visiting of the residents"?

2. Did you mean "Have been increased" could determine the tense of the preceding clause?

(1) A will do zzzz after B have done xxxx

If yes, then (1) would not make sense because it indicates that action of A happens in the past and persists in present, but the tense in the first clause indicates that A actually will happen in the future.

If not, then I have not yet found (1) illogical. Specifically, B happened and its result - I have no idea what is its result - persists in present, and after that A will happen.

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If it says "once xxxxx", then xxxx must describe the actual situation (as opposed to "after xxxxx", in which xxxxx is something that came before).
The actual situation comes after an increase -- but at a time when the increase is clearly relevant -- so "has been increased" works. "Is increased" doesn't.

(2) A will do zzzz after B do gggg
(3) A will do ttttt once B have done yyyy

3. Did you mean that:
in (2) "after B do gggg" indicates time frame. That's all.
in (3) "once B have done yyyy" indicates not just time frame but also connection between what happen in the two clause. For example:

The question is whether the residents will come to visit the art museum to see artifacts once the admission fee has been increased.

in the example, "once xxx" indicates that what happens in the first clause is the result or impact of the second clause.
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After finishing all the post, I find the question 1 and 2 kind of similar to question 3. However, I still keep all of them, so that you may easier understand my problem.

[RonPurewal]

(1) A will do zzzz after B have done xxxx

Let me just use a specific example. Let's say I'm going to take a trip to, um, Jamaica.

"I go to Jamaica" is a point event. It's something that happens and then ends. Once it's in the past, it becomes "I went to Jamaica".
Therefore, the following two things both make sense:
* "After I go to Jamaica..." (if I haven't gone yet)
* "After I went to Jamaica..." (if I already went there)

"I have gone to Jamaica" is not a point event. It indicates that you've been there at some point (and that this fact is somehow relevant to whatever is being discussed).
My point is that "I have gone to Jamaica" NEVER stops being true! Even if you're talking eighty years later, "I have gone to Jamaica" is still true.
So, there's no such thing as "after I have gone...", because "I have gone" never ends.

Hopefully that makes sense.
If it makes sense, good. If it doesn't, it's best to drop the issue (note what I wrote in boldface under "Most importantly" above) and focus on things that will actually be major issues.