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manhhiep2509
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Spanning more than 50 years

by manhhiep2509 Sun Dec 22, 2013 4:32 am

The sentence is part of choice D and E in question 135 of OG 13. I modified it so that I do not violate the forum rule.

D.Spanning more than 50 years, John had begun his career with the unpromising apprenticeship of being a language scholar and culminated in every honor.

Besides the darling modifier, OG explains that "past perfect tense is inappropriate".
Is the use of the tense incorrect because the sentence ambiguously indicates both "begun" and "culminated" happened before another action in the past? Or is there another reason?
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E. Spanning more than 50 years, the career of John has begun with an unpromising apprenticeship of a language scholar and culminated in every honor.

I struggled to explain why the use of the present perfect tense in the sentence is incorrect because I know that present perfect tense can indicate what happened and ended in the past but has had effects in the present. Even the career ended, its beginning and end may have some effects, so I have not found the use incorrect yet.

The OG says "present perfect tense is incorrect". Please explain why it is incorrect.

Thank you.
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The below quote is what Ron explained about the use of present perfect tense, and what my above explanation is based on.

if you are using the present perfect for point actions -- i.e., for things that happened at a definite time in the past and don't persist (although their effects may persist) -- then this is a non-issue in the first place, because those events occurred at one point and that's it. therefore, in the case of such events, the present perfect must refer to the impact of the event on the present situation.
for instance, if i say i have earned a graduate degree in chemistry, then this is obviously something that happened in the past; the use of the present perfect indicates that it is somehow relevant to the current situation.

on the other hand, if you are talking about states, conditions, titles, jobs, etc. -- i.e., things that persist over a period of time -- then there are two possible uses of the present perfect:
1/ (IF A SPECIFIC TIMEFRAME IS MENTIONED) continuing into the present. e.g.,
i have been self-employed for 18 years. (this means up until now; notice that "for 18 years" is a specific timeframe)
i have been lonely since she left (up until now; "since she left" is also a specific timeframe)
2/ (if no specific timeframe is mentioned) these things have been true in the past, but are not anymore. e.g.,
i have been self-employed. (without the timeframe, this means i'm not self-employed anymore. if i were still self-employed, then i would either use a timeframe, like #1, or write "i am self-employed")
i have been lonely. (i don't feel this way anymore. if i do, then i have to use a timeframe, as in #1, or use the present -- "i am lonely.")
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Re: Spanning more than 50 years

by RonPurewal Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:47 am

In choice D, the tense doesn't make sense for reasons that are in the part you quoted.
First part of the quote: The sentence doesn't have a point of view in a specific past timeframe. So, wrong.

What's a "darling modifier"? A modifier that you love very very much? (Yes, the modfier is wrong, because John himself did not "span a time period".)
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Re: Spanning more than 50 years

by RonPurewal Wed Dec 25, 2013 12:53 am

E. Spanning more than 50 years, the career of John has begun with an unpromising apprenticeship of a language scholar and culminated in every honor.

I struggled to explain why the use of the present perfect tense in the sentence is incorrect because I know that present perfect tense can indicate what happened and ended in the past but has had effects in the present. Even the career ended, its beginning and end may have some effects, so I have not found the use incorrect yet.


The things actually described in the sentence -- the way John's career began and ended -- are not things that can reasonably have effects in the present.
If the sentence were to say something else -- e.g., "John's career has inalterably changed the course of his field" -- then, sure. But not with simple facts about the beginning and end of his career.

Also, don't forget that "__ing" modifiers adopt the timeframe of the sentence they're attached to. "Has/have ___" is a verb with a present point of view -- i.e., the sentence sees things from the present -- so attaching "Spanning 50 years" to that timeframe is not sensible.

Finally, in the original, hopefully you'd have eliminated that choice right off the top, because it splits the guy's name in half!