Subjunctive verb

[rajk]

My understanding based on the SC guide that "suggest" is a subjunctive and should be followed by that and clause, verb in the clause should be base form.

I came across following question in one of the MGMAT CAT's, in which correct choice does not follow that pattern, can somebody explain why that is

Some scientists suggest the moon had been formed out of part of the Earth, which was dislodged perhaps by a meteor.
A)the moon had been formed out of part of the Earth, which was dislodged perhaps
B)that the moon was formed from part of the Earth that had perhaps been dislodged
C)that part of the Earth formed the moon, which was dislodged perhaps
D)the moon was formed out of part of the Earth, having perhaps been dislodged
E)that the moon had been formed from part of the Earth, which perhaps had been dislodged

Thanks

[sunny.jain]

I actually really dont understand what are you trying to say, can you please elaborate with an example.

For this Question..
I think the answer Should be C.

Reason:
SUGGEST: means a thought so should be followed by 'that'.

Clause after that that should have bare form of verb, only 'be' not 'to be',
I've read it somewhere.

Which was dislodge perhaps :-- modifier, should touch Moon.

C has everything that we want.

[rajk]

I agree with your explanation.
That is what exactly I was trying to say.
anyway answer is "B" that is my confusion
can somebody pls clarify

[kuiper22]

The answer is 'B' because in this sentence the verb 'had' uses it's past perfect form. The 'dislodging' happened before 'formation' of the moon and needs to be clearly indicated by the verb which is why it's --> choice 'B'

[vrajesh.dave]

what is OA?

[NIKESH_PAHUJA]

Guys,

It has to be B.

@rajk,

Here suggest wont act as subjunctive.

It is used in context of proposing a hypothesis.

so they are proposing a hypothesis that moon was perhaps formed this way.

And use of past perfect is perfectly fine here because first the part wad dislodged and then the moon was formed .

Instructors,

I would be great if you could clarify the following doubts

the moon was formed out of part of the Earth, having perhaps been dislodged

In this case, the adverbial clause refers to the moon or the earth?
and what is the general rule for such cases

[RonPurewal]

the moon was formed out of part of the Earth, having perhaps been dislodged

In this case, the adverbial clause refers to the moon or the earth?
and what is the general rule for such cases

the "comma + ing" modifier should only be used when:

(A)
it MODIFIES THE ENTIRE ACTION of the preceding clause, and it APPLIES TO THE SUBJECT of that clause;

AND

(B)
one of the following is true:
(1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action;
- i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly
(2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action.
- i got a 100 on the most recent exam, bringing my average up to 91
(3) the "ing" action DESCRIBES the main action, in some other extremely direct way (illustration, example, explanation, etc.)

--

since COMMA + -ING clauses are automatically attributed to the SUBJECT of the preceding clause, this modifies the moon.
as it clearly should, in context.

also note that it applies not only to that subject, but to the entire action of that clause (this is what makes it "adverbial").

[RonPurewal]

My understanding based on the SC guide that "suggest" is a subjunctive and should be followed by that and clause, verb in the clause should be base form.

you can't just memorize a 1-1 correspondence between verbs and subjunctive/not subjunctive. it depends on CONTEXT.

if a verb represents a DEMAND, COMMAND, REQUEST, or STATEMENT OF IMPORTANCE*, then you should use the subjunctive.
(*there could be a couple of other categories -- but this is the general idea)

if not, then you don't.

often, the same word straddles both categories.

"suggest" is one of these words.

james suggested that the meeting be postponed.
--> since this takes the form of a request, you use the subjunctive.

the scientist suggested that evolution occurs by sudden, drastic change rather than by gradual, incremental change.
--> this is clearly not a suggestion (i.e., the scientist is not submitting a request to his favorite deity). instead, the scientist is putting forward a hypothesis about what may or may not be true.
no subjunctive.

this problem conforms to the second of these, and not to the first. hence, no subjunctive.

[k.jiayizhang]

the moon was formed out of part of the Earth, having perhaps been dislodged

In this case, the adverbial clause refers to the moon or the earth?
and what is the general rule for such cases

the "comma + ing" modifier should only be used when:

(A)
it MODIFIES THE ENTIRE ACTION of the preceding clause, and it APPLIES TO THE SUBJECT of that clause;

AND

(B)
one of the following is true:
(1) the "ing" action is SIMULTANEOUS with, and SUBORDINATE to, the main action;
- i ran down the sidewalk, flapping my arms wildly
(2) the "ing" action is a DIRECT AND IMMEDIATE CONSEQUENCE of the main action.
- i got a 100 on the most recent exam, bringing my average up to 91

--

since COMMA + -ING clauses are automatically attributed to the SUBJECT of the preceding clause, this modifies the moon.
as it clearly should, in context.

also note that it applies not only to that subject, but to the entire action of that clause (this is what makes it "adverbial").

Hi Ron,
I want to double check whether COMMA+ING can only modify the entire clause. Does that mean COMMA+ING cannot modify the closest NOUN ?

Well, I just saw a sentence in OG.
In a plan to stop the erosion of East Coast beaches,the Army Corps of Engineers proposed building parallel to shore a breakwater of rocks that would rise six feet above the waterline and act as a buffer,absorbing the energy of crashing waves and protecting the beaches.

The underlined part is OA. I understand why we choose the option here (parallel to 'protecting') . What confused me is what ',absorbing the ...and protecting...' modifies? It it the whole clause ' the Army ....proposed ....as a buffer ' ( I guess not )
or the clause ' that (breakwater) would rise ... as a buffer' ?
And is it a case of 'immediate consequence' or 'simultaneous action' ? I think it is more like a purpose/ function, so why we can use COMMA+ING here? Well, I know OA is always right:)
And double check, ' absorbing ...and protecting...' does NOT(and CANNOT) modify 'buffer', right?

Thank you very much. I am really confused about COMMA+ING ...

[aps_asks]

Hi Ron,

I am not sure regarding Choice C ).

Explanation for Choice C ) from MGMAT.

(C) The use of the active verb "formed" is incorrect here because it illogically suggests that "part of the Earth" had an active role in forming the moon.

Are there any other reasons other than meaning that resulted in the Choice C) being incorrect ?

[tim]

well, the "dislodged perhaps" is another reason why C is wrong. :) as for comma-ing, the main thing to keep in mind is that once the comma is inserted, the thing being modified switches from the preceding noun to *something* else..

[nikhil.baveja]

I still cannot understand why E is wrong, it uses had been to reflect two different times in past.
can someone explain me..?

[jp.jprasanna]

I still cannot understand why E is wrong, it uses had been to reflect two different times in past.
can someone explain me..?

Let me....

E)that the moon had been formed from part of the Earth, which perhaps had been dislodged

Which here is bad....

What has been dislodged? - Earth? No.... So which here bad by referring to Earth...
Also the "moon had been formed" is wrong... Simple past would cut it. there is no need to use past prefect.

BTW... What is the OA?

Cheers

[jnelson0612]

I still cannot understand why E is wrong, it uses had been to reflect two different times in past.
can someone explain me..?

Let me....

E)that the moon had been formed from part of the Earth, which perhaps had been dislodged

Which here is bad....

What has been dislodged? - Earth? No.... So which here bad by referring to Earth...
Also the "moon had been formed" is wrong... Simple past would cut it. there is no need to use past prefect.

BTW... What is the OA?

Cheers

Great, thanks!

OA is B.

[ghazal.62]

Hi,

considering Ron's explanations about subjunctive "this problem conforms to the second of these, and not to the first. hence, no subjunctive." and his note about ING modifier, I concluded that correct answer is C. While it is mentioned that it is B. So kindly please advise.

Thanks,