The first trenches..

[ankit.ankitagrawal]

The first trenches that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but independently of the more celebrated city-states of southern Mesopotamia, in what is now southern Iraq.


A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but

B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also

C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but

D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also

E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but

[mangipudi]

A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but

> evidence for is not correct
> that were arising doesnt clearly modify complex socities

B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also

> S-V dont agree. The trenches ... yields

C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but

> having been cut is unnecessary.
> simultaneously is not parallel with independent of
You need simultaneoulsy with

D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also

> S-V dont agree. The trenches ... yields

E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but

> correct

[RonPurewal]

A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but

> evidence for is not correct
> that were arising doesnt clearly modify complex socities

B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also

> S-V dont agree. The trenches ... yields

C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but

> having been cut is unnecessary.
> simultaneously is not parallel with independent of
You need simultaneoulsy with

D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also

> S-V dont agree. The trenches ... yields

E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but

> correct

this is a nice summary of the problem.

original poster: do you have any specific questions? normally, when you post here, you should post the problem along with some specific queries.

[vrajesh.dave]

I understand that in D there is S-V agreement error, which makes sense when I look at it without the time pressure.

I was thrown off answer choice E where is end in "... with but"

"...with but" just does not seem right. Can someone please give me another example of this use.

[RonPurewal]

I understand that in D there is S-V agreement error, which makes sense when I look at it without the time pressure.

I was thrown off answer choice E where is end in "... with but"

"...with but" just does not seem right. Can someone please give me another example of this use.

you're not separating this construction at the correct place. it's a parallel structure, with two prepositional constructions, separated by "but also":
simultaneously with
...but also...
independently of

hope that makes more sense now.

[vineetbatra]

Hello Ron,

I have a few questions:

1. Why we don't need "that" after "the first trenches" (A)

2. Also I noticed that the tense has changed from were arising to arose in E. What is were arising form and why is arose better.

Thanks,

Vineet

[RonPurewal]

Hello Ron,

I have a few questions:

1. Why we don't need "that" after "the first trenches" (A)

it's not wrong to say "...that were cut"; it's just unnecessary.
e.g.,
items produced by this machine are guaranteed to be accurately sized
vs.
items that are produced by this machine are guaranteed to be accurately sized
there's no real difference here. so, the first one is marginally better, if only because it's more concise.
rest assured that such a small difference will NEVER be the sole basis for the elimination of an answer choice.

[/quote]2. Also I noticed that the tense has changed from were arising to arose in E. What is were arising form and why is arose better.

Thanks,

Vineet[/quote]

"were VERBing" implies that the process was going on at the time, but that it didn't necessarily finish. in this context, that is at best questionable.
i.e.,
tom's mother was cutting his hair before the guests arrived --> this makes it sound as though tom's mother didn't finish cutting his hair.
tom's mother cut his hair before the guests arrived --> she finished the job.

--

also, note that "evidence FOR" is unidiomatic in choice (a).
you can only use "evidence FOR" with a theory or idea; it means that the evidence SUPPORTS that theory or idea.
e.g., "evidence FOR evolution" is evidence that helps prove that evolution occurs.

[vineetbatra]

Thanks a lot Ron, you are fantastic^2.

Cheers,

Vineet

[vineetbatra]

Ron,

On the same note, I am having a lot of trouble understanding the usage of that. I don't understand when to use and when not to use "That"

In the example below, I am not sure why we need a that after confidence. This is an OG 12 Q and I understand that you do not discuss OG Q's, but I am just trying to understand the RULE of that. When to use it and when to avoid.

I will really appreciate if you can help.

Thanks,

Vineet

According to some analysts, the gains in the stock market reflect growing confidence that the economy will avoid the recession that many had feared earlier in the year and instead come in for a "soft landing," followed by gradual by gradual increase in business activity

[RonPurewal]

Ron,

On the same note, I am having a lot of trouble understanding the usage of that. I don't understand when to use and when not to use "That"

In the example below, I am not sure why we need a that after confidence. This is an OG 12 Q and I understand that you do not discuss OG Q's, but I am just trying to understand the RULE of that. When to use it and when to avoid.

I will really appreciate if you can help.

Thanks,

Vineet

According to some analysts, the gains in the stock market reflect growing confidence that the economy will avoid the recession that many had feared earlier in the year and instead come in for a "soft landing," followed by gradual by gradual increase in business activity

it's difficult to posit general rules for things like this, and, even if you do, the resulting rules will probably be more complicated than the task of simply remembering the different contexts in which you've seen "that" and the contexts in which you haven't.

in other words -- rather than trying to formulate a rule for everything, just remember the types of constructions you've seen where "that" is required, and the types where it's not.

in the case you've posted --
if you have a noun referring to a feeling or an idea, than you're always going to need to use "that" if a description of that feeling or idea follows.
e.g.
the notion that his own family would vote against him
confidence that the economy will improve
etc.

[rahul9395]

Ron,
What is the correct usage of "evidence"

I am confused whether "evidence for " is wrong ?

Because OG 12 doesn't mention anything about this IDIOM/USAGE.

[RonPurewal]

Ron,
What is the correct usage of "evidence"

I am confused whether "evidence for " is wrong ?

Because OG 12 doesn't mention anything about this IDIOM/USAGE.

i addressed this issue three posts earlier, when i wrote:

also, note that "evidence FOR" is unidiomatic in choice (a).
you can only use "evidence FOR" with a theory or idea; it means that the evidence SUPPORTS that theory or idea.
e.g., "evidence FOR evolution" is evidence that helps prove that evolution occurs.

[aagar2003]

the RULE of that in OG12/#50
According to some analysts, the gains in the stock market reflect growing confidence that the economy will avoid the recession that many had feared earlier in the year and instead come in for a "soft landing."
....
in the case you've posted --
if you have a noun referring to a feeling or an idea, than you're always going to need to use "that" if a description of that feeling or idea follows.
.....

Does the rule applies to the underlined "that"? Would the sentence be correct without the underlined "that"?

[rohansharmaster]

Ron,

Please assert the explanation below :

The sentence in question addresses a reporting by the author of the analysis of the analysts,which is "according to some analysts....",so we need to observe the rule for reporting verbs here.
The rule is "after any reporting verb "THAT" must be used;even in case of parallel clauses that should be used before every parallel clause."
Hence,I think usage of "THAT" is correct here.

Cheers,
Rohan

[Jason.tuyj]

But there is no verb before cut, it should be passive tense.

A. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence for centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East that were arising simultaneously with but

> evidence for is not correct
> that were arising doesnt clearly modify complex socities

B. that were cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously with but also

> S-V dont agree. The trenches ... yields

C. having been cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East were arising simultaneously but

> having been cut is unnecessary.
> simultaneously is not parallel with independent of
You need simultaneoulsy with

D. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, yields strong evidence of centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arising simultaneously but also

> S-V dont agree. The trenches ... yields

E. cut into a 500-acre site at Tell Hamoukar, Syria, have yielded strong evidence that centrally administered complex societies in northern regions of the Middle East arose simultaneously with but

> correct