Today's techonology allows manufacturers to make small cars

[GMAT 5/18]

Source: Gmat Prep, mba.com, Test II

Today's techonology allows manufacturers to make small cars more fuel efficient now than at any time in their production history.

a. Same as above
b. small cars that are more fuel-efficient than they were at any time in their
c. small cars that are more fuel-efficient than those at any other time in
d. more fuel-efficient small cars than those at any other time in their
e. more fuel-efficient small cars now than at any time in

For this question, I began by eliminating all choices ending in "their" - manufacturers require "it" or something similar, but definitely not "their". This left answer choices c. and e. Then, I chose c. over e. because of 2 reasons:

1. e. says that manufacturere are making "more" f-e cars now, and I feel this changes the meaning of the original sentence
2. e. has the wording "now" which I think is redundant as "today's" has already been stated

Is my logic and reasons for choosing c. over e. correct, or did I just get lucky (correct answer is c)? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[dbernst]

Good work identifying the pronoun error. To clarify, however, it is not an error in number (it v. their) but an error in ambiguity. In this case, "their" could refer either to "manufacturers" or "cars"; thus, we can eliminate any answer choices that include "their."

I also agree that the primary error in (e) is redundancy - Because the sentence is discussing "today's" technology it is redundant to say "now." I also think that the meaning of (e) is ambiguous: are manufacturers making cars that are more fuel efficient, or are manufacturers simply making more cars (number of cars)?

-dan

Source: Gmat Prep, mba.com, Test II

Today's techonology allows manufacturers to make small cars more fuel efficient now than at any time in their production history.

a. Same as above
b. small cars that are more fuel-efficient than they were at any time in their
c. small cars that are more fuel-efficient than those at any other time in
d. more fuel-efficient small cars than those at any other time in their
e. more fuel-efficient small cars now than at any time in

For this question, I began by eliminating all choices ending in "their" - manufacturers require "it" or something similar, but definitely not "their". This left answer choices c. and e. Then, I chose c. over e. because of 2 reasons:

1. e. says that manufacturere are making "more" f-e cars now, and I feel this changes the meaning of the original sentence
2. e. has the wording "now" which I think is redundant as "today's" has already been stated

Is my logic and reasons for choosing c. over e. correct, or did I just get lucky (correct answer is c)? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!

[GMAT 5/18]

Awesome, Dan!

Thanks very much for clarifying that pronoun issue. You're right, I did think it was a pronoun issue due to number, but now that I look back at it, both cars and manufacturers can be "their" - however, it is not clear which one it is, manufacturers or cars.

Thanks again for your help.

[dbernst]

No problem!

[alxndr]

Today's techonology allows manufacturers to make small cars more fuel efficient now than at any time in their production history.

This sentence calls for a comparison of the fuel efficiency of small cars between "today" and "in the production history"

Indeed, "their" is ambiguous ->manufacturers OR cars?? Wrong:a,b,d

In C, "those" clearly refers to "small cars"

[andy_11_30]

Ron once said that the test takes some level of pronoun ambiguity
Here,

I see that we are struggling to set a referrent for THEIR..
Can't their refer to MANUFACTURERS logically ???

Besdies, I very well know that the answer should NOT include THEIR>.

But just a thought crossed, please explain...!!!

[RonPurewal]

Ron once said that the test takes some level of pronoun ambiguity
Here,

I see that we are struggling to set a referrent for THEIR..
Can't their refer to MANUFACTURERS logically ???

Besdies, I very well know that the answer should NOT include THEIR>.

But just a thought crossed, please explain...!!!

yeah. i don't think that pronoun ambiguity is the criterion here.

the sentence is supposed to say that today's small cars are more fuel-efficient than previous small cars -- i.e., OTHER small cars.
this is important, because you can't use a "they"/"their" construction (which would illogically imply that you're talking about the same small cars mentioned in the first part of the sentence).
the use of "those" in (c), on the other hand, accomplishes this distinction nicely.

analogy:

sprinters in texas can run faster than they can in north dakota.
--> illogical; in this sentence, "they" would be taken to mean "sprinters in texas" (i.e., not just sprinters).

sprinters in texas can run faster than those in north dakota.
--> makes sense; "those" = sprinters, in this case.

same thing with "they/their" vs. "those" in these instances.

[arzanr]

Ron once said that the test takes some level of pronoun ambiguity
Here,

I see that we are struggling to set a referrent for THEIR..
Can't their refer to MANUFACTURERS logically ???

Besdies, I very well know that the answer should NOT include THEIR>.

But just a thought crossed, please explain...!!!

yeah. i don't think that pronoun ambiguity is the criterion here.

the sentence is supposed to say that today's small cars are more fuel-efficient than previous small cars -- i.e., OTHER small cars.
this is important, because you can't use a "they"/"their" construction (which would illogically imply that you're talking about the same small cars mentioned in the first part of the sentence).
the use of "those" in (c), on the other hand, accomplishes this distinction nicely.

analogy:

sprinters in texas can run faster than they can in north dakota.
--> illogical; in this sentence, "they" would be taken to mean "sprinters in texas" (i.e., not just sprinters).

sprinters in texas can run faster than those in north dakota.
--> makes sense; "those" = sprinters, in this case.

same thing with "they/their" vs. "those" in these instances.

Great explanation. I didn't think there was any pronoun ambiguity either and wasn't sure why B was wrong till I read your post.

[StaceyKoprince]

good discussion guys!

[mohitkant]

I caught on to the "those" difference and narrowed my options to C and D .

c. small cars that are more fuel-efficient than those at any other time in
d. more fuel-efficient small cars than those at any other time in their

I eventually chose D over C because i thought that saying any other time in production history because of two reasons.

1. "any other time" i felt was irrelevant, history itself indicates that we are talking of a time before the current time. Hence saying any other time is perhaps not required.

2. I felt "their" was required since we needed to clarify whose production history. I mean are we talking about Production History of Cars in General or Production history of Cars manufactured by Various Manufacturers.


If Ron says C is right, Then C is definitely is Right, I would appreciate if someone can plug the holes in my logic.

[sandeep.19+man]

Quick question:

Today's techonology allows manufacturers to make small cars that are more fuel-efficient than they were at any time in their production history.

Keeping in mind that pronoun ambiguity is not the criterion here. Does they in option (b) refer to

1. small cars

OR

2. small cars that are more fuel efficient
If this is correct then option (b) becomes small cars that are more fuel-efficient than they(small cars that are more fuel efficient) were at any time in their and hence wrong.
Also, does this mean that
(i) small cars "which" are more fuel efficient than those at any other time in is correct and


(ii) small cars "that" are more fuel efficient than those at any other time in is wrong

I understand the they vs those split.

Thank you very much.

[alvin8139]

yeah. i don't think that pronoun ambiguity is the criterion here.

the sentence is supposed to say that today's small cars are more fuel-efficient than previous small cars -- i.e., OTHER small cars.
this is important, because you can't use a "they"/"their" construction (which would illogically imply that you're talking about the same small cars mentioned in the first part of the sentence).
the use of "those" in (c), on the other hand, accomplishes this distinction nicely.

analogy:

sprinters in texas can run faster than they can in north dakota.
--> illogical; in this sentence, "they" would be taken to mean "sprinters in texas" (i.e., not just sprinters).

sprinters in texas can run faster than those in north dakota.
--> makes sense; "those" = sprinters, in this case.

same thing with "they/their" vs. "those" in these instances.

Excellent explanation! Only one further question to help me understand better: Why can't I understand choice A as below:

'small cars' is a noun phrase that's not specific meant for today's or previous, but just meant to say small cars in general.
And I compare 'now' with 'at any time'; I chose the wrong choice A, because I ever remembered that there were other prep questions that actually compares 'time';
'their' just refer to the 'small cars' in general.

the sentence is supposed to say that today's small cars are more fuel-efficient than [i]previous small cars -- i.e., OTHER small cars.[/i]

I need some further understanding on whether it must be other small cars that we are comparing. Thx for your help.

Can I say if I see answer choices split 'those/that' vs 'they/it' in comparison Questions, 'those/that' are always correct.

[RonPurewal]

Quick question:

Today's techonology allows manufacturers to make small cars that are more fuel-efficient than they were at any time in their production history.

Keeping in mind that pronoun ambiguity is not the criterion here. Does they in option (b) refer to

1. small cars

OR

2. small cars that are more fuel efficient

it's not really either of these.
* it's not #1, because we are clearly not talking about all small cars; we're only talking about the small cars that obey the comparison given.
* #2 is not a proper grammatical analysis -- the comparison itself is contained in the modifier, and you can't split it in half. (i.e., you can't look at "more fuel efficient" as divorced from "than..."; that just doesn't make any sense.)
the best way to look at it is to say that "they" refers to the same small cars that are referenced by the preceding noun -- i.e., exactly those small cars that satisfy the given comparison.

if you want to be exact about it:
in the construction "NOUN that are more ADJ than it/they was/were...", the pronoun "it/they" stands for exactly those NOUNs that satisfy the comparison given.
example:
taxpayers who make more than twice as much income as they did last year are subject to special scrutiny from the IRS.
this is a properly written sentence; in it, "they" stands for the taxpayers who satisfy the condition given here -- i.e., those taxpayers who make more than twice as much income as they did last year, and ONLY those taxpayers. not all taxpayers in general.

--

the problem with this choice is that it's not true -- we are not talking about the same small cars! in this sentence, we're talking about small cars that are more fuel-efficient than previously manufactured small cars, so this sort of pronoun doesn't work here. similarly, in the example sentence above, we could not use "they" to stand for a different group of taxpayers who had paid a lower amount of tax.

[RonPurewal]

@ mohitkant

I caught on to the "those" difference and narrowed my options to C and D .

c. small cars that are more fuel-efficient than those at any other time in
d. more fuel-efficient small cars than those at any other time in their

I eventually chose D over C because i thought that saying any other time in production history because of two reasons.

1. "any other time" i felt was irrelevant, history itself indicates that we are talking of a time before the current time. Hence saying any other time is perhaps not required.

are you sure you're discussing the correct answer choices? you are talking about the words "any other time" as incorrect/irrelevant, but you seem to be discussing 2 answer choices that both contain those words.

2. I felt "their" was required since we needed to clarify whose production history. I mean are we talking about Production History of Cars in General or Production history of Cars manufactured by Various Manufacturers.

if a noun is preceded by adjectives, then any pronoun referring to that noun MUST refer to the complete package of adjectives + noun.
so, in choice (d), "their" must refer to "fuel-efficient small cars"; that doesn't make sense, since fuel-efficient small cars have not been made throughout the entire production history in question.

also, another problem with choice (d) is the ambiguity in the phrasing "more fuel-efficient small cars". this could mean what the other choices are saying (i.e., small cars that are more fuel-efficient), but it could also mean "a greater number of fuel-efficient small cars". the latter, which is probably the way in which most people would initially read this version, is incorrect.

[RonPurewal]

@ alvin1839

Excellent explanation! Only one further question to help me understand better: Why can't I understand choice A as below:

'small cars' is a noun phrase that's not specific meant for today's or previous, but just meant to say small cars in general.
And I compare 'now' with 'at any time'; I chose the wrong choice A, because I ever remembered that there were other prep questions that actually compares 'time';
'their' just refer to the 'small cars' in general.

unfortunately, that's not the way it works.
ironically, the curse here is that we humans are too smart: we can use context to figure out what the sentence is actually supposed to say, even if that's not what it actually says.

for instance, look at my (correct) example with taxpayers in the following post:
post42496.html#p42496
in that case, it should be obvious that the pronoun does not stand for taxpayers in general.
the same holds for the choice that you are analyzing.

Can I say if I see answer choices split 'those/that' vs 'they/it' in comparison Questions, 'those/that' are always correct.

nope.

in SC in general, if you try to formulate any rule that says "word X is always correct, and word Y is always incorrect", independently of context, then, 99.99% of the time, your rule will be invalid.