Usage of though

[anubhavmax]

Though lively and emotional, the debate over whether certain psychological problems are genetically determined or cemented in early childhood is ultimately irrelevant to the treatment of those problems.



A) Though lively and emotional, the debate over whether certain psychological problems are genetically determined or cemented in early childhood is ultimately irrelevant to the treatment of those problems.


B) The debate if certain psychological problems are determined by genetics, as opposed to cemented in early childhood, is ultimately irrelevant in treating those problems.


C) Regardless of whether certain psychological problems are genetically determined or cemented in early childhood -- the subject of lively debate -- they are ultimately irrelevant to psychological treatment.


D) Certain psychological problems may be determined genetically or cemented in early childhood -- the subject of lively and emotional debate -- but are ultimately irrelevant to their psychological treatment.


E) Even though lively and emotional debate exists whether certain psychological problems are genetically determined or cemented in early childhood, it is ultimately irrelevant to psychological treatment.

The correct answer is OA.

I rejected A because as per my understanding "Though" is a subordinating conjunction and like Althought it must be followerd by a clause and not a phrase. Howerver "Though lively and emotional" is a phrase.

Please correct me where am I going wrong on this question.

Regards
Anubhav

[RonPurewal]

I don't know what a "subordinating conjunction" is, but a look at problems #36 and #48 in the 13th edition OG will probably settle this issue.

[anubhavmax]

Well if you don't know what a subordinating conjunction is then here it goes

Subordinating conjunctions are those which connect an independent clause with a dependent clause and they are part of the dependent clause. eg- because, although, though etc

Coordinating conjunctions are those which connect two independent clauses. They are used with a ,. Eg - For, and, nor, but, or, yet, so (FANBOYS).

Coming back to the issue, I didn't find any relevance of this example with OG13, SC36. It starts with an "Along with" which is a preposition and is correctly followed by a phrase.

My problem is conjunctions like "Though" cannot be followed by a phrase. There has to be a clause following a conjunction when it starts a sentence.

For OG13 SC48, the OA starts with "Though called a sea, the landlocked Caspian". It kept me wondering for some time and here is what I found.

Though is commonly used in 3 ways
1) subordinate clause (Though I am hungry, I will not stop for lunch),
2) in a participial phrase (Though bored beyond belief, Jonah continued reading),
3) an adverb (Yeah, it was an impressive movie. A bit long, though).

SC48 falls under the 2nd category - Though called a sea as called a sea is a participial phrase.

Please confirm if "Though lively and emotional" is a participial phrase as well. I am not sure about this as participial phrase normally start with a participle form of the verb.

lively and emotional is an adjective phrase instead. Is there any other rule governing the usage of though?

Regards
Anubhav

[RonPurewal]

See, you're getting in over your head here -- or, more accurately, over my head.
I don't know any of these terms, but I can solve every SC problem correctly. Ergo, you don't need to know the terms either. (Although your understanding of them is impressive.)

Well if you don't know what a subordinating conjunction is then here it goes

Subordinating conjunctions are those which connect an independent clause with a dependent clause and they are part of the dependent clause. eg- because, although, though etc

See, I don't know those terms (independent / dependent clause) either, so that's no help.

I looked them up on the internet and they seem to be the same thing, except for that a "dependent clause" has although/though/etc. in front of it.
That seems like a weak definition -- e.g., a chair is a "chair" if no one is sitting in it, but, if a person sits in it, it's suddenly a "sprock" instead of a "chair". So, in short, I don't understand the terms.

More importantly, there's no reason to go there.

I didn't find any relevance of this example with OG13, SC36. It starts with an "Along with" which is a preposition and is correctly followed by a phrase.

I'm talking about "although growing slowly".

[RonPurewal]

For OG13 SC48, the OA starts with "Though called a sea, the landlocked Caspian". It kept me wondering for some time and here is what I found.

Though is commonly used in 3 ways
1) subordinate clause (Though I am hungry, I will not stop for lunch),
2) in a participial phrase (Though bored beyond belief, Jonah continued reading),
3) an adverb (Yeah, it was an impressive movie. A bit long, though).

Functionally, "bored", "lively", and "emotional" are identical. All of them describe nouns, and all are single words, so you should be able to use them more or less interchangeably.

SC48 falls under the 2nd category - Though called a sea as called a sea is a participial phrase.

Please confirm if "Though lively and emotional" is a participial phrase as well. I am not sure about this as participial phrase normally start with a participle form of the verb.

I don't know this terminology, but I can tell you that GMAC will not write SC problems that depend on such trifling differences.

The best principle to follow here is, "If it seems incredibly complex, you're probably missing something simple." Really.

[ramendra.awesome]

I still have doubts about this one:

I noticed few problems with B:

B) The debate if certain psychological problems are determined by genetics, as opposed to cemented in early childhood, is ultimately irrelevant in treating those problems.

1: 'if' should be used for condition, while 'whether' should be used for choice. Here use of 'if' is unjustified.

2: There is a loss of meaning. It ignores the part ' Though lively and emotional'.

Please let me know, if my reasoning is correct.

Problems with A:

A) Though lively and emotional, the debate over whether certain psychological problems are genetically determined or cemented in early childhood is ultimately irrelevant to the treatment of those problems.

<something> is irrelevant to treatment.
<something> is irrelevant in treating those problems.

I think 'irrelevant to' is not correct here, as it kind of gives an impression that treatment does not need to know about the debate. It is trying to personify the treatment.

Experts, please comment.

[RonPurewal]

I still have doubts about this one:

I noticed few problems with B:

B) The debate if certain psychological problems are determined by genetics, as opposed to cemented in early childhood, is ultimately irrelevant in treating those problems.

1: 'if' should be used for condition, while 'whether' should be used for choice. Here use of 'if' is unjustified.

Yes.

Also, in the construction "_____ if xxxx" (or, equivalently, "If xxxx, _____"), the blank has to be filled with a complete sentence, not a noun.
I.e., you can write There will be trouble if your parents come home early, but you can't write The situation if your parents come home early will be problematic.

[RonPurewal]

2: There is a loss of meaning. It ignores the part ' Though lively and emotional'.

"Loss of meaning" isn't a valid complaint, although admittedly it's a bit strange that this whole idea is just not there.

By presenting "loss of meaning" as a problem, though, you're portraying the meaning of choice A (the original) as though it were somehow more desirable than any other reasonable meaning.
Not so. As long as the meaning is reasonable, it's fine.

To put it another way -- The order of the answer choices shouldn't make any difference.
The way you're looking at this, things would be fundamentally different if choices A and B were to be switched. (In that case, you might complain that the new choice B -- i.e., choice A here -- adds meaning to the original.)
Not a valid way to look at things. Just judge the individual meaning and see whether it makes sense. If it makes sense, there's nothing further to think about in that vein.

--

Don't forget that "(as) opposed to" should be followed by a noun. Cemented isn't a noun.

[RonPurewal]

Problems with A:

A is the correct answer. It doesn't have "problems".

If you stop trying to fight the correct answers, and start trying to learn from them instead, you'll make much more progress.

<something> is irrelevant to treatment.
<something> is irrelevant in treating those problems.

I think 'irrelevant to' is not correct here, as it kind of gives an impression that treatment does not need to know about the debate. It is trying to personify the treatment.

No.
The primary use of the idiom "irrelevant to ____" is "having no meaningful relationship to ____", where ____ is some concept, situation, plan, etc.

In fact, if "irrelevant to" is followed by a person's name, then the person's name has nothing to do with "irrelevant".
E.g.,
Jay thinks it's crucial to think about those issues, but they seem irrelevant to me.
--> This is the same usage as "Chocolate is disgusting to me", "These ideas seem stupid to me", "this plan looks workable to me", etc. The choice of adjective (irrelevant, disgusting, stupid, workable) doesn't affect "to me".

[RonPurewal]

By the way -- Before arguing about idiomatic usage (e.g., "irrelevant to ___"), you should do some quick google searching. The internet is by no means completely free of incorrect usage, but, if the thing you consider "wrong" appears in 99+% of all instances, then, well, it's not wrong.

Type "irrelevant to" (in quotes) into google, and see what comes up -- all of the search results will use the meaning that you're trying to argue is "wrong" here.

[tallys_torrance]

Nice, just to let you know the post isnt showing up properly on my iphone - I think there is a plugin you can grab that takes care of that now.

[jlucero]

Thanks for the heads up. Let us know if there are any other questions.

[DanielaA678]

Hi,

I rejected answer C because it could seem that the -earth was covering- not the sea. I thought that the participle form -ing is always referring the noun it has before.

What is wrong with E?

[RonPurewal]

Hi,

I rejected answer C because it could seem that the -earth was covering- not the sea. I thought that the participle form -ing is always referring the noun it has before.

What is wrong with E?

wrong thread?

[DanielaA678]

Excuse me, what do you mean asking me "wrong thread"?