Diagram

[ManhattanPrepLSAT2]

Hi everyone,

Attached you will find a diagram and potential frames for Game 2. I've also posted diagrams and frames for Games 1, 3, and 4 in other parts of the forum.

These diagrams were originally created for the Review the December 2010 LSAT Workshop. If you are a student of Manhattan LSAT, you can access a recording of that workshop.

Much of the workshop focused on the use of framing techniques to diagram games. We've attached a traditional diagram, and a potential set of frames, for each of the games from the December exam.

Keep in mind that framing, and diagramming in general, is a highly subjective exercise. No two Manhattan LSAT instructors will diagram and solve a set of four games in the same way.

We hope these diagrams will help you gain a better understanding of what frames are, and how and when they can be useful. We'd love to hear from you if you see any additional inferences, or if you've got a different diagram or set of frames that you think work equally well--or better! Also, of course, post here if you have any questions about how to solve any of the problems using these diagrams.

[interestedintacos]

I found something lacking in the pdf.

Namely, we know absolutely that one of the three will have P and Y, another will have G and P and the third will, of course, have either O or P. Doing this is more fundamental than worrying about frames, and it could really help to get through the questions confidently.


_____ _P_ _P_
_O/P_ _G_ _Y_

We know Y must go at least once, and from connecting the conditionals we see that whenever it goes, P must go. We also know P must go with G exactly once, which means we of course can arbitrarily place this (and should) the second we learn of it. We also can infer it cannot go with the P Y block we already have on the board, because Y cannot go with G. Finally we at least know that the third block will have at least O or P. We need to remember now that exactly 2 Rs will be placed--potentially useful to note at this point that the P Y block can have R but cannot have any other variable. Everything else is fairly open.

The debate over frames is beside the point. I think it's AT THE LEAST important to note that when the rules say "G and P go together exactly once," and in this case each of the three windows is on the same footing (there's no linear arrangement or any particular grouping rules like 'if Y is in 1, G is in 2'), we can arbitrarily place G and P on the board. Placing things on the board like this is more fundamental than working on frames.

[canylaw]

Can you simplify the diagram more.I am having a very hard time understanding this games and all the inferences.The frame in so ambugious

Is it possible that a window can have 4 colors?
( G,R,O,P)
also is it possible that both R are together?

Pls help.thanks!!

[yoohoo081]

Thought I'd post this general question here:

P & O CANNOT BE TOGETHER. OR CAN THEY?!

I understand that P or O has to be present, but I thought they can't be present together because of the condition given.

can somebody PLEASE help me with this? My game is completely confused because of this condition and how it's applied in question 8 and 11.

Thank you,

[towardvision]

Thought I'd post this general question here:

P & O CANNOT BE TOGETHER. OR CAN THEY?!

I understand that P or O has to be present, but I thought they can't be present together because of the condition given.

can somebody PLEASE help me with this? My game is completely confused because of this condition and how it's applied in question 8 and 11.

Thank you,

P & O can go together.
The last condition is,

~P > O
-----------
Contrapositive is
~O > P

So it is still possible that O and P go together, since
it's not ruled out. In fact, the answer for 11 is orange and purple,
which means those two colors must be able to go together!

[towardvision]

Can you simplify the diagram more.I am having a very hard time understanding this games and all the inferences.The frame in so ambugious

Is it possible that a window can have 4 colors?
( G,R,O,P)
also is it possible that both R are together?

Pls help.thanks!!

I.
Yes, it is possible that a window has 4 colors.
For example,

1: GOPR
2. YP
3. RO

Since Yellow rules out 2 colors, it can't be in a window
that has four colors.

II. No it's not possible that both R are together.
The second condition says, exactly two windows contain rose glass, meaning two different windows, not one window.
If window 1 contains rose glass, no matter how much rose it has, it is still just one same color. It can't be counted as two different colors.

[jennifer]

Mike, on the lsat review of test 62, I believe you said there can only be one "G", why I thought there could only be 1 GP, together, what would prevent you from having an additional G window without the p?

[noah]

Mike, on the lsat review of test 62, I believe you said there can only be one "G", why I thought there could only be 1 GP, together, what would prevent you from having an additional G window without the p?

Mike's on vacation, so let me see if I can help. I agree with you - perhaps Mike mentioned that in the context of a specific question. Regardless, you seem to know what's going on!

[cvoldstad]

Could someone tell me what type of game this would be considered? 3D ordering? I was very confused about how to diagram it when I read the question and rules!

[maryadkins]

This is an open grouping game! Notice that you're grouping the colors into windows, and that you have the word "at least" a couple of times—you don't know how many colors are going to be in each window. Also the "order" (1, 2, 3) doesn't matter so it's not ordering. The numbers are just there in this case to distinguish the three windows. There aren't any questions about which window comes first, etc.

[NinaG734]

Where can you access the video for setting this up/solving the questions on MP?
Thanks.

[clementm284]

Hi,

I have problems regarding the rule of "If a Window does not contain purple glass, then that window contains orange glass"

The explanation I saw above is very insufficient.

How exactly can P and O go together? It says If -P, then O. The contrapositive should be If -O, then P. In no scenario should O and P ever go together if that's the case.

Someone help !!

[ohthatpatrick]

Let's say that a window contains purple and orange glass.

Let's test whether that would offend this rule.

THE RULE:
If a window does not contain purple glass .....

Does this rule apply to our window?

Nope! Our window DOES contain purple glass. Since this rule doesn't apply to us, we couldn't possibly be breaking it.

The contrapositive is the exact same rule, so we don't ALSO have to check the contrapositive. But if we were to do so, we'd think

CONTRAPOSITIVE RULE:
If a window does not contain orange glass ....

Does this rule apply to our window?

Nope! Our window DOES contain orange glass. So this rule is irrelevant to our window.

===============

This is a very important think to straighten out, for the sake of all the conditional logic on the test.

You can only apply a rule when the trigger is satisfied.

If you have a window with both purple and orange glass, then you wouldn't ever trigger a rule that says
"If you DON'T have purple"
or
"if you DON'T have orange"

[MikaylaA752]

I'm sorry if this is an obvious question, but how do we know that all windows can have a maximum of 4 spots? I understand that if Y is in one window we can't have G or O so wouldn't at least one window only be able to have 3 spots?

[smiller]

I'm sorry if this is an obvious question, but how do we know that all windows can have a maximum of 4 spots? I understand that if Y is in one window we can't have G or O so wouldn't at least one window only be able to have 3 spots?

Excellent observation. It's true that at least one window will be limited to three spots. How this appears on your diagram depends on how far you go with the inferences.

If you're looking at the PDF that was shared at the top of this thread, some people might move on to the questions with a very general diagram like the one shown on the first page. We can infer that at least one window will be limited to three colors, but we don't know which, so we might leave four in each window on our initial diagram. If we create a temporary diagram later to answer a certain question and place Y in a window on that temporary diagram, we would eliminate the fourth spot.

It's certainly possible to go farther with inferences in this game before attacking the questions. If you recognize that you can place GP in one window and Y in another, you would eliminate the fourth space from the window containing Y. If you frame as shown on the second and third pages of the PDF, you would also eliminate the fourth space from the windows containing Y.