Q19 - Even those who believe

[ManhattanPrepLSAT2]

I think an analogous argument might help:

All cultures have different definitions of beauty. Still, there are some people that are simply more beautiful than others. However, this beauty must always be considered along with one's personality.

I haven't totally transferred over some of the finer points of the argument, but hopefully the connection is clear to see.

The part in question is analogous to my statement "still, there are some people that are simply more beautiful than others."

Notice two things about this statement --

1. It's a claim (an opinion)

2. According to the author, it's an opinion that must be considered alongside something else (personality).

That's what (C) says -- it's a claim that must be considered in a specific way --

(A) is incorrect in part b/c the author doesn't try to refute the hypothesis
(B) is incorrect in part b/c it is not an objection
(D) is very tempting, but this isn't a claim that is derived from another claim.
(E) is incorrect because the statement is not used to justify evidence.

Hopefully that makes things clearer. This is a tough q, so please let us know if you need any follow up.


#officialexplanation

[cyruswhittaker]

Can you please go over #19? I am unclear about the structure of the argument, and how choice C relates to the argument.

[cyruswhittaker]

Yes that clears it up. Thanks. I was just having difficulty sifting through the words.

[opulence2001]

I'm sorry, but I'm still having trouble as to why the sentence is not a generalization.
I'm struggling a bit with this one because when they say "even those...must admit that..." it doesn't seem like an opinion, but a generalization.

Also, it seems like the argument is following as follows :

even tho you believe this...you must admit that...

so for this reason I thought that the way it was set up was to a slight objection. For this reason I chose B and of course it was wrong. Could someone please explain why I am approaching this question incorrectly (besides the obvious fact that it lead to the wrong answer...)

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

I see two things to bring up. First, the claim that some painters are superior to others in their execution is a generalization. Answer choice (B) is not incorrect in calling the claim a generalization. Answer choice (B) is wrong for something else it says.

Second, the claim is not objected to in the argument. The argument advances that claim as true for everyone - even those who believe that the art of each age and culture has its own standards of beauty. It is suggested that the superiority should be measured in a certain way, but the superiority would continue to exist regardless.

Saying that the claim is to be understood in way manner specified in the conclusion is a more accurate description of the claim's role, since the claim is not objected to in the argument.

Let me know if/where you see an objection in the argument. But I don't see one.

[opulence2001]

Okay, so I see it now. I was too focused on the generalization and not the rest of the sentence (I ahead of myself here).

Thank-you! I see now that the argument is not an objection. C is right because it says in the stimulus "must be measured in light of..." hence the specification.

Thanks so much for clarifying further!

[john]

19. (C)
Question type: Analyze Argument Structure

The statement that some painters are superior than others might best be categorized as a kind of opposing view; it seems clear from the passage that the author is committed to the idea that standards of beauty change over time, and so would fall into the group that "must admit" the statement, as though unwillingly. (Probably the idea is something like: If you think standards of art are relative, you have trouble saying that one artist is simply better than another.) However, the passage does not try to contradict this point; rather, it does, as promised, admit that it’s true, but then qualifies it in light of the conclusion: that the meaning of that superiority depends on the artist’s purposes. So the best choice is (C): the argument’s conclusion qualifies, or tells us how best to understand, this claim.

(A) is incorrect because the argument doesn’t try to refute this idea; it admits the statement’s truth.
(B) might be tempting if you thought that the example of Toledo disproved the statement; more precisely, though, it demonstrates that the statement, while true, must be understood in light of the argument’s conclusion.
(D) is wrong on both points; the claim is not derived from any other statement nor is it really used to support the conclusion.
(E) is incorrect; the argument doesn’t use the statement to justify the example, but rather uses the example to develop the correct understanding of the statement.

[alena21century]

In regards to answer choice B, it does contain an objection, in my opinion. The fact the Toledo's paintings do not resemble what they represent despite his extraordinary artistic skills can be brought as an objection to the claim that there is definitely superiority of expression of artistic vision. You can say, well, the artistic vision is just expressed differently, it is not that one artist does it better than another. I believe, that answer choice B is wrong because the statement that "some painters are simply superior to each other" is a comparative statement, rather than a generalization.

Answer choice C basically says that the conclusion clarifies the statement about superiority, which it does.

[mitrakhanom1]

I'm definitely confused. I thought a claim means an opinion of the author or the conclusion. From the list I got from what makes a conclusion, opinions is listed on how you spot a conclusion. So I think a claim=opinion=conclusion. Also in the first sentence it has the word "must" which indicates a necessary conditional. So if its to the right of the arrow its on the conclusion side. So this is why I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind answer choice C. I thought " ...must admit that some painters are simply superior to others in the execution of their artistic vision" was the conclusion/author's opinion. So how can it be a claim that is understood by the conclusion?

[maryadkins]

I'm definitely confused. I thought a claim means an opinion of the author or the conclusion. From the list I got from what makes a conclusion, opinions is listed on how you spot a conclusion. So I think a claim=opinion=conclusion. Also in the first sentence it has the word "must" which indicates a necessary conditional. So if its to the right of the arrow its on the conclusion side. So this is why I am having a hard time understanding the logic behind answer choice C. I thought " ...must admit that some painters are simply superior to others in the execution of their artistic vision" was the conclusion/author's opinion. So how can it be a claim that is understood by the conclusion?

Good question. Unfortunately, I have an answer that may not be satisfactory, which is that CLAIM on the LSAT doesn't always mean the conclusion. It can just mean an assertion, or a statement alleged to be true, which sometimes isn't the final conclusion. In this case, it's an opinion that SUPPORTS another, more final opinion...that it should be measured in X way.

This is an unusual argument structure, though. I wouldn't use it as a model for learning how to answer LSAT questions. I'd come back to it once you have the more typical structures down. It's an outlier.

[daijob]

Could you rephrase "in a manner specified by the conclusion"?
Is it like...the way described by the conclusion? I was not sure what C means...

Thank you

[maryadkins]

Could you rephrase "in a manner specified by the conclusion"?
Is it like...the way described by the conclusion? I was not sure what C means...

Thank you

YES!

[stemmastery]

Hey! I just need some clarification on the conclusion. If this was on my test, I would have skipped it, because I got flustered when I couldn't identify the conclusion. However, I was able to answer it correctly. Is the conclusion "This superiority must be measured in the light of the artist's purposes."?

[ohthatpatrick]

Correct!

You can mainly find this conclusion with an awareness of keywords.

CONC
thus, therefore, hence, so, as a result, consequently, concluded

PREM
because, since, after all, for

CHANGE FROM COUNTERPOINT TO AUTHOR
but, yet, however


Premise keywords indirectly show us where a conclusion is, as well.

Any time you use "after all" or "for", the previous claim was a conclusion.
Any time you use "because" or "since", that premise idea will be sharing the sentence with a conclusion.

If you see "because/since ______ , _____ ." then the second idea was a conclusion.

If you see "_______ , because/since _____." then the first idea was a conclusion.

In this argument, we saw
[1st claim].
But [2nd claim],
since [3rd claim] and [4th claim].

From those clues, we would assume that BUT represents the beginning of the author's argument, and that the 2nd claim is the conclusion, since it's followed by "since".

[sengdykes]

The statement in question, "some painters are superior to others in the execution of their artistic visions," is referenced several different ways in the answer choices.

For example:
A) It is a hypothesis...
B) It is a generalization...
C) It is a claim...
D) It is a claim
E) It is a generalization

I was able to answer this question correctly, but I did find myself spending too much time trying to determine if the statement in question actually was a claim, hypothesis or generalization. So can the statement be seen as all three? I believe it can. Also, will the LSAT attempt to trick us by referring to a statement in analogous terms? I feel it would be better to focus on whether the statement actually does what the AC says, rather than attempting to differentiate between analogous terms.

[ohthatpatrick]

Agreed --- they won't usually make an answer hinge on what generic noun they chose.

"Claim" can refer to anything. Fact, opinion ... if it's a complete sentence, it's a claim.

"Generalization" can be stretched to fit a lot of things. It shouldn't be anything too specific, like "John went to the bank on Thursday."

But, I can turn that into a generalization by saying "John goes to the bank on most Thursdays".

"Hypothesis" can be used in a conversational sense to mean "speculative guess", but it should always convey some sense of explanatory power.

If a question is posed, "Where is John?"
"He's at the bank" could be a hypothesis, if it's a speculative guess.

More often, hypothesis gets used when someone is claiming "X is the reason for Y".

For the sentence you provided, I think it would be crazy to call it a hypothesis, but totally fine to call it a generalization or claim. (And as you said, I would look for other parts of the answer first ... is this generalization/claim providing support or being supported? That would tell me whether they're calling it a premise or a conclusion)