Q19

[zami_3]

Can someone help with Q19. Do i need to try out each option where J cannot be placed?

[ManhattanPrepLSAT1]

It seems like there is a clever way to do this game. When I first tried this game, I set up frames with the GK chunk on 4/5, 5/6, and 6/7. Unfortunately, I didn't get much more from trying to exploit the chunk.

In the end I backed off a more elegant solution and just muscled my way through this one.

So for Q19, I'd run through the answer choices one after another. Find one hypothetical that shows that it could work and eliminate the answer choice.

(A)
M J L F H G K
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

(B)
L M J F G K H
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

(C)
H _ _ M J G K
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

(forces L into the second position)

(D)
L M F G K J H
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

(E)
L M F G K H J
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

But I would move on to question 20 after answer choice (C) proved to be impossible.

[esthertan0310]

I did this question last, eliminated option (B) from the information at question 20 and option (A) based on a frame at question 22.

[raqueljpaul]

I'm still confused by this question, perhaps I'm misunderstanding the rules.
For Answer Choice C, why can't it go in the other direction like below?

L F G M J K H
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

The rule just stipulates that there be at least two nurses between H and M, but they didn't say which order. Am I missing an inference?

Please help!

Thanks!

It seems like there is a clever way to do this game. When I first tried this game, I set up frames with the GK chunk on 4/5, 5/6, and 6/7. Unfortunately, I didn't get much more from trying to exploit the chunk.

In the end I backed off a more elegant solution and just muscled my way through this one.

So for Q19, I'd run through the answer choices one after another. Find one hypothetical that shows that it could work and eliminate the answer choice.

(A)
M J L F H G K
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

(B)
L M J F G K H
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

(C)
H _ _ M J G K
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

(forces L into the second position)

(D)
L M F G K J H
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

(E)
L M F G K H J
1 2 3 4 5 6 7

But I would move on to question 20 after answer choice (C) proved to be impossible.

[ohthatpatrick]

Hey, there.

It looks like you interpreted rule 3 to mean "G is somewhere before K", but it says the day before K.

So your scenario violates the GK requirement. Hope that clears things up. Let me know if not.

[DanielleB416]

So is the general consensus on this question that the best approach is just trial and elimination? Or is there possibly a more direct approach to tackling this that I am not seeing? Trying to find ways to pick up time whenever I can. Thanks!

[ohthatpatrick]

Do you do all the questions in order?

I, and a lot of other teachers, do the questions in this order:
1. Orientation (assuming there is one)
2. IF questions (including "fully determined" questions)
3. Everything else

We do the IF questions 2nd so that we have as many previous work scenarios to look at when we go to do other questions.

From Q20, I have
L M J F [G K] <--> H

From Q21, I have
L (F, H) G K M J

From Q22, I have
L (F, M - J) G K H

So when Q19 asks me where J can't go, I start by asking, "Where do I know J can go? Where have I seen it before?"

I've seen it in spot 3, spot 7, and spot 4.

That gets rid of (B) and (E).

At this point, you resort to plug and chug. Since the only rule for J is
M - J, you're more likely to mess things up by putting J early than by putting J late. So I would start with (A).

The rest of this explanation would just duplicate other people's plug and chug work.

Overall, try not to have a strong aversion to plug and chug. It's okay / appropriate that you're asking whether there's a clever alternative, but the reality is that most of the time the clever alternative (if it exists) doesn't occur to us in realtime.

My biggest strength in GAMES has nothing to do with upfront inferences or clever approaches to individual questions.

I get 'em all right (with time to spare, usually) just by writing out lots of scenarios. So it's not untenable, as many students fear, to resort to writing things out.

I don't even want people to think they're "resorting" to it, as though that move is to be avoided as much as possible.

Just trying stuff out is the name of the game. Good luck!