As the honeybee’s stinger is heavily barbed

[RonPurewal]

Please advise how to identify whether preposition refers directly to the NOUN or not?

you have to understand the message that the sentence is trying to convey. there is not going to be a formulaic approach.

1)
He is CEO of an MNC soaring quickly.
He is CEO of an MNC. << Right makes sense

this one would be wrong, unless a multinational corporation can soar through the air.

3)
i've never heard of bees stinging dogs
i've never heard of bees << Right makes sense

but that's not the message that the sentence is trying to convey. you have to use a certain amount of common sense to approach this stuff.
in this sentence, the speaker is very clearly not implying that he/she has never heard of bees themselves. instead, the speaker is implying that the fact that bees sting dogs is what's novel or unfamiliar.
so, your analysis here actually shows exactly why this version is wrong.

4)
Retailers reported loss, because of their sales being bad.
Retailers reported loss, because of their sales << Right makes sense

same problem as #3. the issue is not the sales themselves; the issue is the fact that the sales are bad. that message is not properly conveyed.

5)
Retailers reported loss, because of their sales having been bad.
Retailers reported loss, because of their sales << Right makes sense

same issue.

I am removing the VERBING modifier in all 5 sentences. All make sense and appear correct to me, but I guess based on other post last three are incorrect.

if they "all appear correct", then you aren't thinking about the message of the original sentence.

[RonPurewal]

so in summary is preposition + noun + verbing almost always incorrect? the case you mentioned:

"there is a picture of Tom sleeping"

seems pretty rare on gmat problems anyway.

if you had to place a random bet in any particular instance, you would probably be better off betting that the construction is incorrect. however, as i pointed out, it's perfectly possible for the construction to be correct.

the way you're asking this question is troubling, in that your point of view seems unnecessarily hostile to actually thinking about the meaning of the sentence. in other words, it seems that you'd rather memorize almost uncountably many guessing guidelines -- things that are not even real rules -- then consider fairly straightforward aspects of meaning and context.
considering that meaning/context influences literally everything in sentence correction, this is not a good sign.

[davetzulin]

thanks Ron, I'll take that suggestion to heart.

I actually thought that EVEN IF preposition + noun + verbing is correct as far as meaning, it is inferior to a different construction, kind of like concision and the other lower priority things. I thought so because i found in more than one thread that you mentioned it was wrong and that it's rare to see it on an official problem.

then i got confused because there was a 100 Brutal SC question with a correct answer using that construction correctly.

but thanks to you i do understand how do make a conclusion on this construction based on meaning instead of just blindly eliminating any choice with it.

[RonPurewal]

then i got confused because there was a 100 Brutal SC question with a correct answer using that construction correctly.

dave, you should keep a healthy distance away from free, anonymous third-party sources of sc problems downloaded from the internet. as the saying goes, those kinds of things are worth exactly what you pay for them.
in particular, the "1000sc" and "brutal sc" documents have SERIOUS issues -- as in "almost every single problem is wrong in some significant way" type of issues. using sources like that, you're going to un-learn a lot more than you're going to learn.

instead, you should stick to the official problems. even if you have solved all of them, i can guarantee you that you haven't done everything that you can do with them. for instance, with each problem, you should be able to insert the correct answer into the sentence -- thus making a sentence that is correct in every way -- and then justify EVERY construction in the resulting sentence, regardless of whether it is underlined.
for instance, if you see any modifier, anywhere, you should be able to point out exactly what noun or action is being modified by it. if you see any idiomatic construction, you should note how it is used and what it means. if you see any verb, you should be able to identify its subject. etc. etc.

don't use the random third-party sources.

[agarwalmanoj2000]

Please advise how to identify whether preposition refers directly to the NOUN or not?

you have to understand the message that the sentence is trying to convey. there is not going to be a formulaic approach.

1)
He is CEO of an MNC soaring quickly.
He is CEO of an MNC. << Right makes sense

this one would be wrong, unless a multinational corporation can soar through the air.

3)
i've never heard of bees stinging dogs
i've never heard of bees << Right makes sense

but that's not the message that the sentence is trying to convey. you have to use a certain amount of common sense to approach this stuff.
in this sentence, the speaker is very clearly not implying that he/she has never heard of bees themselves. instead, the speaker is implying that the fact that bees sting dogs is what's novel or unfamiliar.
so, your analysis here actually shows exactly why this version is wrong.

4)
Retailers reported loss, because of their sales being bad.
Retailers reported loss, because of their sales << Right makes sense

same problem as #3. the issue is not the sales themselves; the issue is the fact that the sales are bad. that message is not properly conveyed.

5)
Retailers reported loss, because of their sales having been bad.
Retailers reported loss, because of their sales << Right makes sense

same issue.

I am removing the VERBING modifier in all 5 sentences. All make sense and appear correct to me, but I guess based on other post last three are incorrect.

if they "all appear correct", then you aren't thinking about the message of the original sentence.

Hi Ron,

Many thanks for your reply.

I will focus on the message of the original sentence, and will consider prep + noun + verbing as wrong, if I need to guess.

Thanks again.

[tim]

glad to hear it. and i can't echo Ron's admonition strongly enough: stay away from questionable problem sources!

[jai1902]

first off, the construction (preposition) + NOUN + VERBing is WRONG, unless the preposition refers directly to the NOUN. (that isn't usually the case, so, if you're in doubt, you should strike choices with this sort of construction.)

for instance:
i've never heard of bees stinging dogs
WRONG. this is not an issue of whether you've heard of bees themselves; it's an issue of whether you've heard of their stinging dogs.

...results in the act of stinging causing...
WRONG. this doesn't result in the act of stinging itself; it results in what is caused by the act of stinging.

i have a picture of my cousin playing hockey.
CORRECT. this time, the picture is actually of my cousin, so we're good.

Ron,
I pondered over these examples and issues.
A generalization has stuck my mind:

1. (preposition) + NOUN + (TRANSITIVE VERB)ing is WRONG
2. (preposition) + NOUN + (INTRANSITIVE VERB)ing may be CORRECT

Please clear my mind. Thanks in advance.

[tim]

i don't think this generalization follows at all from Ron's examples..

[niharika.jain03]

We will solve this question by the method of elimination.

As pointed out by Ron, the following construction is wrong, i.e
Preposition+noun+verb(ing)
unless the noun is the object of the preposition and the verb(ing) is modifying the noun.

This eliminates option A and D
In option C, it appears that the stinger results...
This statement does not make sense as a noun cannot result in an action.
Option B is eliminated as the use of "as" is incorrect in this statement.

This leaves us with option E as the correct one.

[jlucero]

We will solve this question by the method of elimination.

As pointed out by Ron, the following construction is wrong, i.e
Preposition+noun+verb(ing)
unless the noun is the object of the preposition and the verb(ing) is modifying the noun.

This eliminates option A and D
In option C, it appears that the stinger results...
This statement does not make sense as a noun cannot result in an action.
Option B is eliminated as the use of "as" is incorrect in this statement.

This leaves us with option E as the correct one.

This looks right.

[thanghnvn]

I can not understand how "with" phrase is used in E.

normally, "with" phrase can modify noun or clause.

when "with" phrase modifies a clause, I do not understand the meaning relation between the two. Ron, pls, explain the meaning relation so that I can realize the correct E next time when I see the "with" phrase used this way.

[jlucero]

I can not understand how "with" phrase is used in E.

normally, "with" phrase can modify noun or clause.

when "with" phrase modifies a clause, I do not understand the meaning relation between the two. Ron, pls, explain the meaning relation so that I can realize the correct E next time when I see the "with" phrase used this way.

In this case, "with" does modify the entire clause. It's the reason that "resulting in X" also sounds right (and might be preferred, but not necessary).

In this case, the "with the result" answers the question, "what happens next?" It's an unusual idiom, but that's probably true of all idioms.

Also, one of our great instructors just did a blog post on this exact problem:

http://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index ... rection-2/

[zhouyj1089]

Hi Instructors,

I have a quick question about the usage of "this".

I read another thread for the question:

Because there are provisions of the new maritime code that provide that even tiny islets can be the basis for claims to the fisheries and oil fields of large sea areas, they have already stimulatedinternational disputes over uninhabited islands.

Ron pointed that:

choice (d) uses "this" as a standalone pronoun. that's pretty much never acceptable in a formal written sentence.
if you're going to use "this", you should use it as an adjective: this thing, this finding, this statistic, etc.

Besides, I remember the book, Manhattan 5th SC, mentions that "Do not use 'this' or 'these'/'those' in place of nouns."

According to these rules said either by Ron or Manhattan 5th SC, this sentence "this results in the act of stinging ..." is grammatically unacceptable, because "this" is used as an noun here. So choice A can be eliminated by this reason.

However, in the article "Comparing Things in GMATPrep Sentence Correction", which is an analytical article of the question "honeybee's stinger" , Stacey said that

the word 'this' can also refer to an entire idea, including a separate independent clause in the same sentence or a separate sentence. The power in my house went out. This irritates me. The power in my house went out; this irritates me. I’m really saying that this situation irritates me.

Here is link of the article:
https://www.manhattangmat.com/blog/index.php/2012/10/25/comparing-things-in-gmatprep-sentence-correction-2/

According to the rule said by Stacey, this sentence "this results in the act of stinging ..." is grammatically acceptable.

I am so confused. Is "this" a standalone pronoun as "that" and "those", using as adjective as "that" and "those"?

Thanks a lot!

[RonPurewal]

My understanding is that "this", in formal English, is not a pronoun at all. It's strictly an adjective.

In almost all less formal English contexts, it is used as a pronoun quite frequently.

I'll see whether Stacey has any examples of "this" as a pronoun in official GMAC materials. But I'd bet not.

[zhouyj1089]

My understanding is that "this", in formal English, is not a pronoun at all. It's strictly an adjective.

In almost all less formal English contexts, it is used as a pronoun quite frequently.

I'll see whether Stacey has any examples of "this" as a pronoun in official GMAC materials. But I'd bet not.

OK. I will count all choices that used "this" as pronoun in SC questions as wrong answers.

Thank you very much, Ron. I am so excited when I see your reply. All instructors of Manhattan GMAT are heroes!