Uses of Which

[zakkwylde.01]

Well I also marked E my answer. The reason I choose E is that in choice E "is the world’s smallest network digital camcorder, the length of which is that of a handheld computer, weighing" since the underlined part "the length....computer" is separated by commas, it is a non essential clause. So if I remove this non essential clause...

you can't really do that. if you have
clause1, clause2, -ING
then, in most cases, the -ING will modify clause2, not clause1.

here's an example:

the truck spilled a tankful of gasoline, some of which spilled into the river, killing a large number of fish.
--> note that "killing a large number..." modifies the immediately preceding clause, not the first clause.

It will be as follows:

The electronics company has unveiled what it claims is the world’s smallest network digital camcorder weighing less than 11 ounces.

that wouldn't work; you'd need the commas. otherwise, you're qualifying the sentence: you're saying that you're only choosing from camcorders that weigh less than 11 ounces.

for instance:
the world's tallest man weighing under 150 pounds --> this means that you take the tallest man from the collection of men who weigh under 150 pounds, not the world's tallest man overall.

Well Ron,then going by your logic,in the question below option C should be wrong which is the OA.

In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets, "most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle" other stars.

(A) most of them as large or larger than Jupiter, which circle
(B) most of them as large or larger than Jupiter and circling
(C) most of them at least as large as Jupiter, circling
(D) mostly at least as large as Jupiter, which circle
(E) mostly as large or larger than Jupiter, circling

In this example also, we take the part " most of them...jupiter" as non essential part and the sentence becomes..
In the past several years, astronomers have detected more than 80 massive planets circling other stars .....which is absolutely right.

Please help why this logic is not valid for the question at hand.
.

Oh nevermind. After reading your explanation 5th time, i realized my blunder.
Sometimes its better to take a break.

Great explanation by the way.

[RonPurewal]

thanks.

[RickyH486]

can 'which' ever refer to an object of a prepositional phrase? so in C), putting everything else aside, does 'which' gramatically refer to 'camcorder' or 'world'?

by default it would be 'world', which makes choice (c) almost laugh-out-loud funny (the world is as long as a handheld computer? i guess all those people who talk about 'small world' are right!)

if you encounter a problem on which ALL of the answer choices become absurd if you attribute the 'which' in this way, THEN, and only then, should you start assigning the 'which' to the entire noun + prepositional phrase construction. in general, the gmat is not very liberal at all with its use of 'which', so following the 'right next to the comma' rule should get you through most everything.

Wow, reading this post feels like going on a long journey for me, and I am really satisified with how much insights I have gained by doing so. I have a question for master Ron. I have a question about this point that you have made. Do you recommend us to apply the similar thinking to "that" modifiers? The basis for my question is that I remember seeing a lot "that" modifiers that modifies the entire "noun + prepositional phrase construction" as OA. I would like to know if "that" modifers are more flexible with the "touching" rule.

[RonPurewal]

those modifiers are, indeed, very flexible.

take a look at problem #50 in the DIAGNOSTIC verbal section of OG 12th, 13th, 2015, or 2016 edition (= problem #98 in the DIAGNOSTIC verbal section of OG 2017).
...not the regular SC chapter—the DIAGNOSTIC chapter (toward the very front of the book).

in that problem, note just how much distance there is between "that will..." and the noun that it actually modifies.

if you think for a bit, you'll realize that it's impossible to put that modifier any closer to the noun—but that isn't the point right now. right now, the point is simply to notice that a great distance is allowed to intervene between the noun and this sort of modifier, if necessary.

__

[RonPurewal]

in any case—
don't forget that this is a multiple-choice test!

you will NEVER, EVER have to DECIDE WHERE TO PUT these modifiers!

all you'll have to do is this:
• recognize what the modifier SHOULD modify;
• KEEP the choices that put it CLOSEST to that thing;
• ELIMINATE the choices that put it FARTHER AWAY from that thing.

that's all you'll have to do. if you try to learn "rules" for WHERE TO PUT these kinds of modifiers, you're just wasting your time AND adding unnecessary difficulty.

[SAHILS228]

Hey Tutors,
Can't we eliminate B because "Comma + AND" is given? This means there is a list containing more than 2 items and those are not parallel because the 2nd item starts with "which" and The meaning of the 3 items doesn't make sense.
Is my reasoning applicable?

Thank You in advance

[LarryM989]

Hey Tutors,
Can't we eliminate B because "Comma + AND" is given? This means there is a list containing more than 2 items and those are not parallel because the 2nd item starts with "which" and The meaning of the 3 items doesn't make sense.
Is my reasoning applicable?

Thank You in advance

Let me restate the question :

The electronics company has unveiled what it claims to be the world’s smallest network digital camcorder, the length of which is that of a handheld computer, and it weighs less than 11 ounces.

A. to be the world’s smallest network digital camcorder, the length of which is that of a handheld computer, and it weighs
B. to be the smallest network digital camcorder in the world, which is as long as a handheld computer, weighing
C. is the smallest network digital camcorder in the world, which is as long as a handheld computer, and it weighs
D. is the world’s smallest network digital camcorder, which is as long as a handheld computer and weighs
E. is the world’s smallest network digital camcorder, the length of which is that of a handheld computer, weighing


I dont see a comma+ And in the answer option B and neither am i a tutor. But here are my two cents on why B should be wrong .

1. the usage of "to be". When saying that the company claims something to be the worlds smallest network digital camcorder, it also implicitly means that the company's claim need not be true. Its like saying " He claims to be a singer, but he cant sing". So when you are bringing out a contrast, you can use the form of "claims to be" but not in this case.
2. the usage of ", which" . This relative clause modifier should be placed as close to the noun it is trying to modify (This need not necessarily be true in all cases. There are some exceptions that i have seen in official questions. But when you narrow down 2 options , the one having ,which next to the noun it is trying to modify is almost always correct). Here ", which" is trying to modify the digital camcorder and not "world" hence B is ruled out.
3. usage of the adverbial modifier "weighing". The original sentence is trying to say that the camcorder is as long as a handheld computer and weighs less than 11 ounces. H ere these 2 facts are independent and hence we should maintain the same meaning in the answer options. What B does is it changes the meaning . It modifies the entire clause trying to imply that the weighing less than 11 pounds is related to the fact that device is the as long as a handheld computer.

I can only explain this with an example.

Ex 1 . Driving at a speed of 20 Kms/hr , he came late to office.
Ex 2 . He drove at a speed of 20 kms/hr and came late to office.

The first sentence here is correct because it is trying to mean that he came late to office because he was driving at a speed of 20 km/hr.
The second sentence here means that the person came late to office but not because he drove at a speed of 20 kms/hr. The two events are not related in this case. Grammatically both the constructions are correct, but meaning wise the first sentence is correct.

You can use the above points to eliminate the other options too. And we are left with only D.
Tutors correct me if i am wrong

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

Hey Tutors,
Can't we eliminate B because "Comma + AND" is given? This means there is a list containing more than 2 items and those are not parallel because the 2nd item starts with "which" and The meaning of the 3 items doesn't make sense.
Is my reasoning applicable?

Thank You in advance

I'm not sure I fully understand - are you referring to answers A or C? Sometimes we will use a comma before and in a list of 2 items if, for example, there's another modifier in the way. Consider this (correct) sentence: 'I bought some brown rice, which is healthier than white rice, and some beans.'

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

LarryM989, nice description of why B is incorrect. You make things clear and simple, well done.

[SAHILS228]

Hey Tutors,
Can't we eliminate B because "Comma + AND" is given? This means there is a list containing more than 2 items and those are not parallel because the 2nd item starts with "which" and The meaning of the 3 items don't make sense.
Is my reasoning applicable?

Thank You in advance

I'm not sure I fully understand - are you referring to answers A or C? Sometimes we will use a comma before and in a list of 2 items if, for example, there's another modifier in the way. Consider this (correct) sentence: 'I bought some brown rice, which is healthier than white rice, and some beans.'

Sorry, My bad. I am talking about C specifically.

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

I hope I answered your question all the same.

[RAHULS852]

Well I also marked E my answer. The reason I choose E is that in choice E "is the world’s smallest network digital camcorder, the length of which is that of a handheld computer, weighing" since the underlined part "the length....computer" is separated by commas, it is a non essential clause. So if I remove this non essential clause...

you can't really do that. if you have
clause1, clause2, -ING
then, in most cases, the -ING will modify clause2, not clause1.

here's an example:

the truck spilled a tankful of gasoline, some of which spilled into the river, killing a large number of fish.
--> note that "killing a large number..." modifies the immediately preceding clause, not the first clause.

It will be as follows:


The electronics company has unveiled what it claims is the world’s smallest network digital camcorder weighing less than 11 ounces.

that wouldn't work; you'd need the commas. otherwise, you're qualifying the sentence: you're saying that you're only choosing from camcorders that weigh less than 11 ounces.

for instance:
the world's tallest man weighing under 150 pounds --> this means that you take the tallest man from the collection of men who weigh under 150 pounds, not the world's tallest man overall.

Hi Sage/ Manhattan expert,

As Ron stated above,
Clause 1, Clause 2, -ing modifier then ing modifier can modify clause 2
Clause 1 , modifier, -ing then -ing will modify clause 1

B) to be the smallest network digital camcorder in the world, which is as long as a handheld
computer, weighing
here ", which is as long" is working as a modifier then weighing should modify clause "The electronics company has unveiled what it claims to be the smallest network digital camcorder in the world"
Meaning wise this sentence would be wrong, because electronic company can't weight less than 11 ounces.
My question is about -ing modifier.
is in choice B 'weighing' modifying ' "which is as long as a handheld
computer" ?


Regards
Rahul Singh

[Sage Pearce-Higgins]

Clause 1, Clause 2, -ing modifier then ing modifier can modify clause 2
Clause 1 , modifier, -ing then -ing will modify clause 1

Although this sounds reasonable, I encourage you not to get too technical about rules for modifiers. There are simply too many different situations to account for.

My short answer to your second question is simply that the modifier 'weighing...' is unclear. I wouldn't say that it's definitely modifying either the first clause or the modifier beginning 'which is as long...'. It might help to think of comma -ing modifiers as being more flexible than noun modifiers. Here, since the sentence is definitely trying to give some facts about the camcorder, a which modifier is clearer.